Author Topic: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays  (Read 1723 times)

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Richpo64

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Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« on: October 11, 2007, 01:53:49 PM »
Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays

By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | 10/2/2007

At Columbia University on Monday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared: ?We don?t have homosexuals like in your country. We don?t have that in our country. We don?t have this phenomenon; I don?t know who?s told you we have it.?


If there were any truth to this ? and there is none ? it would be because because the Islamic regime in Iran had killed them, since homosexuality can be a capital crime in that country. One notorious case occurred on July 19, 2005, when two teenage boys, Mahmoud Asgari, 14, and Ayaz Marhoni, 16, were hanged in a particularly brutal manner in Iran for the crime of homosexual activity. Although Iranian officials insisted that the death sentence was for the rape of a third boy, the National Council of Resistance of Iran, has said otherwise. But Asgari and Marhoni were not alone. According to the Iranian gay and lesbian rights group Homan, the Iranian government has put to death an estimated 4,000 homosexuals since 1980. According to Scott Long, director of the Human Rights Watch Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Rights Program, Iranians who are suspected of being gay commonly face torture. Hossein Alizadeh of the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission said Iran gays live with ?constant fear of execution and persecution and also social stigma associated with homosexuality.?


This is true not only in Iran, but in all too many areas of the Islamic world. The Qur?an characterizes those who ?practice your lusts on men in preference to women? as ?transgressing beyond bounds? (7:81). A hadith pronounces ?the curse of Allah? upon those who engage in homosexual activity. A contemporary Muslim writer, Shaykh Abdul-Azeez Al-Fawzaan, called homosexuality ?one of the most sinful acts known to humankind? and said that it was ?evidence of perverted instincts, total collapse of shame and honor, and extreme filthiness of character and soul.?


Legal views on punishment vary. Among the Sunni schools of Islamic jurisprudence (madhahib), the Hanafi school mandates a severe beating for the first offense, and the death penalty for a repeat offender. The Shafi?i school calls for 100 lashes for an unmarried homosexual, death by stoning for a married one. The Hanbali school requires stoning across the board. Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, directed his followers to ?kill the one who sodomizes and the one who lets it be done to him? (?Umdat al-Salik, p17.3).


In many areas these injunctions are still followed. The Islamic Penal Law Against Homosexuals in Iran calls for the death penalty for sodomy and one hundred lashes for lesbianism for the first three offenses, with death for the fourth offense. Homosexuality is a capital offense not only in Iran, but also in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and Mauritania. In Malaysia, it can draw a twenty-year prison sentence, and is illegal also in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, the United Arab Emirates, and Uzbekistan, among others.


Of course, Afghanistan under the Taliban regime drew international attention for killing gays by toppling walls onto them. Pakistani law mandates two years in prison for homosexual activity, but the traditional Islamic penalties of lashing and stoning are still widely popular. When authorities in the United Arab Emirates arrested twenty-six men whom they accused of participating in a mass gay wedding ? with twelve dressed as grooms and twelve as brides, plus a disc jockey and a man who was to perform the wedding ceremony ? in November 2005, they announced plans to subject the men not only to lashings and jail time, but also to hormone treatments.


In light of all this, the silence of campus gay rights groups and the so-called ?progressive? Left generally about the global efforts by Islamic jihadists to impose Islamic Sharia law is appallingly short-sighted. While they attack Christians, who are not calling for gays to be imprisoned or killed under any circumstances, they say nothing about a genuine threat to their survival. While they attack Israel, a gay-friendly country, they are silent about the murder of gays in Islamic Iran.


The late columnist Cathy Seipp recounted a telling incident in March 2006, when a friend of hers went into San Francisco?s City Lights bookstore and asked for a copy of the late and much-missed Oriana Fallaci?s The Force of Reason. ?We don?t carry books by fascists,? sniffed the clerk, prompting Seipp to muse: ?Strangest of all is the scenario of such a person disliking an author for defending Western civilization against radical Islam -- when one of the first things those poor, persecuted Islamists would do, if they ever (Allah forbid) came to power in the U.S., is crush suspected homosexuals like him beneath walls.?
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Robert Spencer is a scholar of Islamic history, theology, and law and the director of Jihad Watch. He is the author of seven books, eight monographs, and hundreds of articles about jihad and Islamic terrorism, including the New York Times Bestsellers The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) and The Truth About Muhammad. His latest book is Religion of Peace?.

fatman

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 03:27:44 PM »
When we get to the point that gay college students aren't being strung up on Wyoming fences and left to die, then we'll worry about the Middle East.  When we get to the point that gays aren't physically assaulted outside of gay bars for the simple fact that they're gay and *gasp* not ashamed of it, then we'll worry about Islam.  Until then, we should probably clean up our own backyard first.

Note to the factually challenged:

I am not advocating the view of Islam towards homosexuality, nor do I condone most of the actions of fundamental Muslims.  I just think it's a little hypocritical for a member of this forum who is far on the right, to post an article about Islamic abuse and murder of homosexuals, to point out hypocrisy in the homosexual community.

Richpo64

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 04:11:30 PM »
>>I just think it's a little hypocritical for a member of this forum who is far on the right, to post an article about Islamic abuse and murder of homosexuals, to point out hypocrisy in the homosexual community.<<

I see, so you think you can tell me what I can and cannot discuss. Typical liberal.

Fuck off fatass.


sirs

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 04:13:47 PM »
Rich, stop acting like knute's twin.  We already have 1 class clown
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Richpo64

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 04:14:40 PM »
Sirs, go fuck yourself.

fatman

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 04:27:26 PM »
I see, so you think you can tell me what I can and cannot discuss. Typical liberal.

Fuck off fatass.


And you offer no refutions, no analysis of your thinking, nothing but names.  If you had, perhaps you might have had something.  There are a lot of people in here whose political opinions I disagree with, but I like them for the people that they are.  A difference of opinions in politics is a poor excuse to go trolling in the gutter.  Evidently you don't know what irony truly is.

Richpo64

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 04:35:25 PM »
What is there to refute? You're fascist attitude?

I don't really think there's any need. You've put it out there for all to see.

fatman

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 04:46:10 PM »
What is there to refute? You're fascist attitude?

My fascist what?  I see, because I claimed that you're a hypocrite, that makes me a fascist.  Not once did I tell you to stop posting, hell, I didn't even suggest it.  All I did was point out a hypocrisy on your part (and let's be honest, we all have our own little hypocrisies), and rather than address that, like a big boy, you tell me I'm a liberal, a fascist, and a fatass?  I'm willing to debate issues of merit, I posted a topic in this thread that is suitable to debate (cleaning up our own backyard on the issue of homosexuality before we take our case overseas), and all you can do is belittle and call names.  I'm open to a debate, you're evidently not, so who's the fascist again?

Must be nice to live in Knuteland.

Richpo64

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 05:15:46 PM »
Your fascist attitude. Is that clear enough?

I'm not allowed to discuss a subject because the fatman doesn't like my politics? His opinon is worth more than mine because he goose steps to the liberal tune?

Again I say, fuck off fatass.

fatman

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 05:30:09 PM »
I'm not allowed to discuss a subject because the fatman doesn't like my politics?

Who said you can't discuss a subject?  Is it a case of "can't" or is it a case of "won't"?

His opinon is worth more than mine

Again, who said that?

because he goose steps to the liberal tune?

Uh.  Okay.  If you say so *eyeroll*

Again I say, fuck off fatass.

Who's the fascist again?

Michael Tee

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 06:00:38 PM »
At one point in the 19th Century, there were over 250 capital offences in British and Canadian law.  We Canadians hanged a 12-year-old servant girl for the theft of her employer's silver spoon.  This was during an era when only a Christian had the right to sit in the House of Commons and hold elected office.  There was some improvement since then and now we have no capital offences.  The U.S.A. still has several capital offences, how many I am not sure of.  Iran probably has more.

Is Iran the most inhuman country in the world?  Probably not.  Is it less humane than the U.S.A. or Canada?  Probably so.  What exactly is Rich's point?  That the laws of Iran and other Muslim countries need to be made more humane?  And if so, who is going to lead the crusade to make them so?  Your "President" Bush, who as governor of Texas presided over one of the highest capital punishment totals in the world?  Who defends his right to define for himself and subject to no legal or judicial oversight what is or is not torture?  Who presided over an occupation of both Afghanistan and Iraq in which torture was rife?

Israel's Supreme Court has actually AUTHORIZED torture of Arab prisoners.  "Targeted killings" of suspected militants and activists are routine, on-going on a daily basis.  A "humanitarian" criticism from Israel regarding the execution of homosexuals is NOT going to be well received.  Neither would Bush's condemnation.

I am sure that the same gradual process of amelioration and humanization goes on in Islamic law, by lawyers and scholars, as went on under the Anglo-American legal system, and a terrible system will gradually become less and less terrible.  It takes time.  IMHO, it also takes scholarly exchanges, study and encouragement.  Pounding the war drums - - especially by the impotent fascists who launched but cannot complete the Iraq adventure - - is NOT going to help the project on its way.

fatman

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 06:06:51 PM »
A "humanitarian" criticism from Israel regarding the execution of homosexuals is NOT going to be well received.  Neither would Bush's condemnation.

Tee, are you saying that it would not be well received because the victims are homosexuals?  Or is it because of a hypocrisy in America and Israel?

The U.S.A. still has several capital offences, how many I am not sure of.

The only ones that I'm personally aware of are Murder I (in WA state it has to have a premeditating factor) and treason.

Michael Tee

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2007, 06:55:46 PM »
<<Tee, are you saying that it would not be well received because the victims are homosexuals?  Or is it because of a hypocrisy in America and Israel?>>

Because of the hypocrisy.  America and Israel have a long way to go in their treatment of homosexuals, for example when they refuse to recognize gay-bashing as a hate crime.  Also, when Republican politicians seek support from "family-friendly" Christian groups which spread the hate propaganda that leads to the gay-bashing.  But IMHO they are still light-years ahead of Iran (just to pick one example) in their  treatment of gays.

However, BOTH Israel and the U.S.A. are torture states, both practice "targeted killings" (assassinations) and their professed "shock" and "horror" at the abuses of the Iranian regime, even if only limited to the torture and execution of gays, would be received with the mockery they would deserve.  They all torture and execute, legally and extra-judicially, only they pick different targets, so the criticism of any one against any other would just be a cause for hollow laughter.

Brassmask

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2007, 09:31:04 PM »
>>I just think it's a little hypocritical for a member of this forum who is far on the right, to post an article about Islamic abuse and murder of homosexuals, to point out hypocrisy in the homosexual community.<<

I see, so you think you can tell me what I can and cannot discuss. Typical liberal.

---- off fatass.



LOL

I think fatman qualifies as a Log Cabin Republican, Richiepoo

Universe Prince

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Re: Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4,000 Gays
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2007, 11:14:18 PM »

I am not advocating the view of Islam towards homosexuality, nor do I condone most of the actions of fundamental Muslims.  I just think it's a little hypocritical for a member of this forum who is far on the right, to post an article about Islamic abuse and murder of homosexuals, to point out hypocrisy in the homosexual community.



I see, so you think you can tell me what I can and cannot discuss. Typical liberal.

Fuck off fatass.


Name calling, profanity and victimhood seems to be the best Richpo can muster up to defend against legitimate criticism. Hm. Too bad. I guess he just doesn't want to grow up. But hey, if he is happy in the sandbox, leave him there.

By the way, Fatman, nice to see you around. You should stop by more often.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--