Spanish king tells Chavez to "shut up"

[BT]

 Spanish king tells Chavez to "shut up"

By EDUARDO GALLARDO, Associated Press Writer 50 minutes ago

The king of Spain told Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to "shut up" Saturday during a heated exchange at a summit of leaders from Latin America, Spain and Portugal.

Chavez, who called President Bush the "devil" on the floor of the United Nations last year, triggered the exchange by repeatedly referring to former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar as a "fascist."

Aznar, a conservative who was an ally of Bush as prime minister, "is a fascist," Chavez said in a speech at the Ibero-American summit in Santiago, Chile. "Fascists are not human. A snake is more human."

Spain's current socialist prime minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, responded during his own allotted time by urging Chavez to be more diplomatic in his words and respect other leaders despite political differences.

"Former President Aznar was democratically elected by the Spanish people and was a legitimate representative of the Spanish people," he said, eliciting applause from the gathered heads of state.

Chavez repeatedly tried to interrupt, but his microphone was off.

Spanish King Juan Carlos, seated next to Zapatero, angrily turned to Chavez and said, "Why don't you shut up?"

The Venezuelan leader did not immediately respond, but later used time ceded to him by his close ally Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega to answer Zapatero's speech.

"I do not offend by telling the truth," he said. "The Venezuelan government reserves the right to respond to any aggression, anywhere, in any space and in any manner."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071110/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/chile_summit_spat&printer=1;_ylt=Ar08bJ_PwP4vM0zFMYTyHu29IxIF

[Michael Tee]

Another stacked "debate."   Rodriguez attacks Chavez, but Chavez' mike is turned off so he can't reply.

I can see why these folks are so fond of bullfights.  The matador can kill the bull but the bull isn't allowed to kill the matador.  I bet they'd like boxing matches too if one of the boxers could have one hand tied down.

Fortunately Daniel Ortega turned over his time to Chavez and the fascists couldn't think fast enough to deal with this unexpected event.  They can't silence EVERY voice raised against them.

[BT]

Did the Spaniards heckle Chavez when he had Ortega's mike?

[Michael Tee]

I don't know.  Chavez wasn't insulting his hosts, so I don't know why they'd heckle him.

When Chavez was trying to interrupt Rodriguez, it was while Rodriguez was insulting his own guest, a shocking breach of protocol that almost certainly wipes out any faux pas that Chavez might have committed in interrupting his (Rodriguez') flow of insults.

[yellow_crane]

Spanish king tells Chavez to "shut up"

By EDUARDO GALLARDO, Associated Press Writer 50 minutes ago

The king of Spain told Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to "shut up" Saturday during a heated exchange at a summit of leaders from Latin America, Spain and Portugal.

Chavez, who called President Bush the "devil" on the floor of the United Nations last year, triggered the exchange by repeatedly referring to former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar as a "fascist."

Aznar, a conservative who was an ally of Bush as prime minister, "is a fascist," Chavez said in a speech at the Ibero-American summit in Santiago, Chile. "Fascists are not human. A snake is more human."

Spain's current socialist prime minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, responded during his own allotted time by urging Chavez to be more diplomatic in his words and respect other leaders despite political differences.

"Former President Aznar was democratically elected by the Spanish people and was a legitimate representative of the Spanish people," he said, eliciting applause from the gathered heads of state.

Chavez repeatedly tried to interrupt, but his microphone was off.

Spanish King Juan Carlos, seated next to Zapatero, angrily turned to Chavez and said, "Why don't you shut up?"

The Venezuelan leader did not immediately respond, but later used time ceded to him by his close ally Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega to answer Zapatero's speech.

"I do not offend by telling the truth," he said. "The Venezuelan government reserves the right to respond to any aggression, anywhere, in any space and in any manner."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071110/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/chile_summit_spat&printer=1;_ylt=Ar08bJ_PwP4vM0zFMYTyHu29IxIF

Once again, I find myself saying "Hurrah for Hugo."

What is important is that the concepts of socialism and fascism are identified and labelled properly.  It is important that Chavez clarifies the concept of "fascist";  it is what it is, and should not be held under the bushel, as we here do.  It is as true for them as it is for us.  

There is no use trying to pretend that a global economy run by elitists is ever going to avoid the proper label of fascist, or that it creates not prosperity on a level playing field but classism and elitism.

Make no mistake about it, this will be a CLASS war, when the world reacts to the fact that the Emirates emmigres think their gates are securely locked against the unfed masses.  

And it should be pointed out that Spanish of Spain believe, and have always believed, that they can tell other Hispanic peoples to "shut up" whenever, with impunity,  because they feel superior to them.  It is not Franco that engenders this, it is this that engenders fascist elitists like Franco to emerge.


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"The only question which occupies the ruling class is whether it is cheaper to coerce or to bribe."    --Brooks Adams

[Michael Tee]

<<And it should be pointed out that Spanish of Spain believe, and have always believed, that they can tell other Hispanic peoples to "shut up" whenever, with impunity,  because they feel superior to them.>>

I think it's more a question of the Castillians specifically and not generally all of the Spanish in Spain.  Although if you really were to get into his lineage - - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain#Ancestors - - you'd see a lot of non-Castillian branches on that family tree.  Like most European royal families, plenty of Germanic blood.  But I'd say culturally, he's probably raised as a Castillian.

I guess being a blueblood and a king doesn't do much for his listening skills or his patience either.

[BT]

So the answer is as i expected that the Spaniards did no heckle Chavez when he had the floor.

Chavez on the other hand behaved as a boorish self aggrandizing punk.

I can see why you relate to him.

[Michael Tee]

<<Chavez on the other hand behaved as a boorish self aggrandizing punk.>>

Chavez was an invited guest who was  insulted by his cowardly host, who tried ineptly  to prevent him from replying.   Much like Ahmadinejad at Columbia University.

I can see why you relate to the boorish, self-aggrandizing punk host.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I think it is highly presumptuous of some of you to crow about how wonderful it is that someone asked Chavez to shut up. Latin American politics can't be explained in terms of American or European politics.

Aznar isn't a Fascist. Chavez is rather full of himself at times. But it is somewhat silly to compare Chavez to some mythical standard of perfection, when one takes into account that Venezuela has been one of the most poorly run nations in history.

Venezuela has huge expanses of fertile croplands, which are mostly used as pasture for cattle that are destined for Mickey D. Yet Venezuela imports most of its food. The people who could be prosperous farmers are crowed around Caracas in hopes of living off the crumbs of the few wealthy people who have benefited by Venezuela's huge oil and iron wealth.

The AD and COPEI parties were intensely corrupt for years, nearly since they deposed Perez Jimenez in the 1950's. There has been no real land reform or effort to end corruption until Chavez. The wonder is that someone like Chavez did not emerge sooner.

Capitalism in Venezuela means corruption, and it clearly has not worked and will not work there until major changes take place.

The king of Spain is just another guy, Why we are to give him some special status as a super statesman remains a mystery to me. He has been a force for good in Spain, but he understands Spain. He does not necessarily understand that Venezuela is unlike Spain. Mostly, he was defending Aznar, who was a respected and elected Spanish prime minister.

If people like those on this forum dod not disagree from time to time, there would be no reason to hold such forums.

I am sure that this rebuke of Chavez was far from the most illuminating moment of this forum.

[BT]

Chavez was an invited guest who was  insulted by his cowardly host,

The meeting took place in Chile. The king was not the host.

[Plane]

Another stacked "debate."   Rodriguez attacks Chavez, but Chavez' mike is turned off so he can't reply.

I can see why these folks are so fond of bullfights.  The matador can kill the bull but the bull isn't allowed to kill the matador.  I bet they'd like boxing matches too if one of the boxers could have one hand tied down.

Fortunately Daniel Ortega turned over his time to Chavez and the fascists couldn't think fast enough to deal with this unexpected event.  They can't silence EVERY voice raised against them.

The Bull is handicapped by Picadores befor the Matadore takes him on , but the Bull is still dangerous and every now and then wins.
http://www.red2000.com/spain/toros/index.html
http://www.actsion.com/latest.htm

[Plane]

Another stacked "debate."   Rodriguez attacks Chavez, but Chavez' mike is turned off so he can't reply.

I can see why these folks are so fond of bullfights.  The matador can kill the bull but the bull isn't allowed to kill the matador.  I bet they'd like boxing matches too if one of the boxers could have one hand tied down.

Fortunately Daniel Ortega turned over his time to Chavez and the fascists couldn't think fast enough to deal with this unexpected event.  They can't silence EVERY voice raised against them.

Why is interrupting a good idea for Chavez to do, and a bad idea for Juan Carlos?

Juan Carlos is correct, Hugo Chavez is rude for no reason.

Who treats HC with such little respect?

[Michael Tee]

<<Why is interrupting a good idea for Chavez to do, and a bad idea for Juan Carlos?

<<Juan Carlos is correct, Hugo Chavez is rude for no reason.

<<Who treats HC with such little respect?>>

BT has corrected me.  I originally thought Chavez was being insulted by his host, which would have been rude enough to give him the right to interrupt.

But even if the insult was not from the host, it was still rude - - so if Rodriguez was rude enough to insult a fellow guest, Chavez could legitimately interrupt him in the middle of his insults.  I don't think Chavez was being rude, he was simply defending himself against a rude attack.

Who treats Chavez with so little respect?  Rodriguez, who insulted him in public.

[Plane]

<<Why is interrupting a good idea for Chavez to do, and a bad idea for Juan Carlos?

<<Juan Carlos is correct, Hugo Chavez is rude for no reason.

<<Who treats HC with such little respect?>>

BT has corrected me.  I originally thought Chavez was being insulted by his host, which would have been rude enough to give him the right to interrupt.

But even if the insult was not from the host, it was still rude - - so if Rodriguez was rude enough to insult a fellow guest, Chavez could legitimately interrupt him in the middle of his insults.  I don't think Chavez was being rude, he was simply defending himself against a rude attack.

Who treats Chavez with so little respect?  Rodriguez, who insulted him in public.

"Spain's current socialist prime minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, responded during his own allotted time by urging Chavez to be more diplomatic in his words and respect other leaders despite political differences.

"Former President Aznar was democratically elected by the Spanish people and was a legitimate representative of the Spanish people," he said, eliciting applause from the gathered heads of state."

This is more inslting than;

Chavez, who called President Bush the "devil" on the floor of the United Nations last year, triggered the exchange by repeatedly referring to former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar as a "fascist."

Aznar, a conservative who was an ally of Bush as prime minister, "is a fascist," Chavez said in a speech at the Ibero-American summit in Santiago, Chile. "Fascists are not human. A snake is more human."

Rodriguez seems pretty mild in stateing as a fact that Hugo Cahvez is undiplomatic.

[Michael Tee]

You know, I wasn't really following the subject, but it's entirely possible that Chavez' anger at Rodriguez is based on something more than the events of the conference.  Possibly something that Rodriguez said or did previously, really had Chavez pissed off and this convention's scolding was just the last straw.  Possibly Chavez is just a schmuck with a hair-trigger temper and a motor-mouth.  Who knows?