Author Topic: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals  (Read 5395 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2008, 10:34:46 PM »

Yeah, I guess no one looked for bullet holes in the back of the skulls of the dead officers, huh?

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Let me guess, you were there and did see the holes?

The usual version I have heard was that the Maine blew up as a result of a coal dust fire, which set off the ammo in the hold.

Spain would not have had any reason to provoke a war with the US. They knew their navy and military was utterly pathethic.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2008, 10:53:12 PM »
Let me guess, you were there and did see the holes?

No, I just believe the reports of the people who buried 'em at Arlington. Died from wounds sustained in the explosion or drowned. It was Mikey who said that no officers were killed in the explosion, yet officers were buried because of it. They must have died of *something*.

The usual version I have heard was that the Maine blew up as a result of a coal dust fire, which set off the ammo in the hold.

So, you believe the Admiral Rickover version? I think that National Geographic did a good job with their computer simulation, and also explaining why the previous theory is incorrect. Rickover's theory, for example, does not explain why the bottom hull was bent inward.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2008, 08:27:07 AM »
So, you believe the Admiral Rickover version? I think that National Geographic did a good job with their computer simulation, and also explaining why the previous theory is incorrect. Rickover's theory, for example, does not explain why the bottom hull was bent inward.
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I didn't say I had a position on the cause of the destruction of the Maine. I was unaware that one was required. The coal dust theory sounded plausible.

Later, I read the National Geographic as well, and see where that might make sense as well. I think I will reserve judgement, since it is unimportant to me.

But why would the Spanish have had mines floating about Havana harbor, though? I imagine that the Spanish would welcome scholars checking out ancient Spanish naval records, as the current Spanish government has no political axes to grind, and historical research fascinates them a lot more than it seems to fascinate those who keep the records of the US.

The important fact is that it was not blown up intentionally by anyone. Not the Spanish or the Americans.
The Americans were not connaiving enough to blow it up then (this was before the days of the Dulleses), and the Spanish were stupid, but not stupid enough to blow up the Maine, which could not have been to their advantage in any way.

I have found that it is always wise to assume that incompetence exists everywhere, and it is always a more likely reason than conspiracy.

I think that we can discount anything said by any tourist guide, anywhere. They tend to not indulge in scholarly research. If there were dead officers on board, we can assume they died as a result of the explosion.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 08:35:30 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2008, 08:45:16 AM »
But why would the Spanish have had mines floating about Havana harbor, though?

Harbor defense. It's known that there were mines in the harbor, placed by the Spanish.

The important fact is that it was not blown up intentionally by anyone. Not the Spanish or the Americans.

There is no indication that either of those did it - it would not have been in either of their interests. The two most plausible theories are that a mine broke free of it's mooring and drifted into the Maine, or that Cuban insurgents intentionally used the mine, in an effort provoke a US reaction against the Spanish.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2008, 06:21:52 PM »
<<Since a number of ship's officers were killed when it sank, and the Captain was on board making preparations for making way for New Orleans, I'd say that the guide was pretty much full of shit.

<<The National Geographic investigated this sinking not too long ago; they came to the conclusion that it was sunk by an outside explosion, most likely a mine placed by the Spanish.>>

FROM THE EDITORIAL PAGE OF TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL, NOT EXACTLY A HOTBED OF LEFTWING ANTI-AMERICAN POLITICS:

Iran's Provocation
by Walter Russell Mead

<< . . . The widespread (though probably erroneous) U.S. belief that the U.S.S. Maine had been destroyed by a Spanish mine in the harbor of Havana, Cuba, forced . . . McKinley to launch the Spanish-American War in 1898.>>

Amianthus

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2008, 08:19:20 PM »
FROM THE EDITORIAL PAGE

That's all that needs to be said. Editorials don't generally include much scholarly research.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2008, 10:29:26 PM »
<<That's all that needs to be said. Editorials don't generally include much scholarly research.>>

In a reputable newspaper, they do try to state facts that are generally accepted as fact by the authorities of the day.  If the WSJ twists the facts, they generally try to twist them in a way favourable to American interests and to a laudatory view of America, past and present.

Amianthus

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2008, 10:37:14 PM »
In a reputable newspaper, they do try to state facts that are generally accepted as fact by the authorities of the day.

Last time I checked, the editorial section of most (if not all) newspapers is not fact checked. I can find plenty of editorials that contain factual errors. Many times I write to the paper in question to point out factual errors in the editorials, and a significant number of those times the paper publishes my letter.

Editorial sections contain opinion pieces - opinions need not be fact checked.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: U.S. Navy Comes Through for McCain, Son & Grandson of Admirals
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2008, 10:08:55 AM »
Maybe you should write the Wall Street Journal.