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_JS

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The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« on: October 25, 2006, 11:50:31 AM »
Emphasis is mine

We have turned Iraq into the most hellish place on Earth

Armies claiming to bring prosperity have instead brought a misery worse than under the cruellest of modern dictators

Simon Jenkins
Wednesday October 25, 2006

The Guardian[/url]

British ministers landing in Aden in the 1960s were told always to make a reassuring speech. In view of the Arab insurrection, they should give a ringing pledge, "Britain will never, ever leave Aden". Britain promptly left Aden, in 1967 and a year earlier than planned. The last governor walked backwards up the steps to his plane, his pistol drawn against any last-minute assassin. Locals who had trusted him and worked with the British were massacred in their hundreds by the fedayeen.

Iraq's deputy prime minister, Barham Salih, was welcomed to London by the BBC on Monday with two documentaries recalling past British humiliations at the hands of Arabs, in Aden and Suez. It was not a message Salih wanted to hear. His government is retreating from its position in May, when it said that foreign forces should withdraw from 16 out of 18 provinces, including the south, by the end of this year. Tony Blair rejected this invitation to go and said he would "stay until the job is done". Salih would do well to remember what western governments do, not what they say.

Despite Suez and Aden, British foreign policy still lurches into imperial mode by default. An inherited belief in Britain's duty to order the world is triggered by some upstart ruler who must be suppressed, based on a vague desire to seek "regional stability" or protect a British interest. As Martin Woollacott remarks in his book After Suez, most people at the time resorted to denial. To them, "the worst aspect of the operation was its foolishness" rather than its wrongness. When asked by Montgomery what was his objective in invading the canal zone Eden replied, "to knock Nasser off his perch". Asked what then, Eden had no answer.

As for Iraq, the swelling chorus of born-again critics are likewise taking refuge not in denouncing the mission but in complaining about the mendacity that underpinned it and its incompetence. As always, turncoats attribute the failure of a once-favoured policy to another's inept handling of it. The truth is that the English-speaking world still cannot kick the habit of imposing its own values on the rest, and must pay the price for its arrogance.

US and UK policy in Iraq is now entering its retreat phrase. Where there is no hope of victory, the necessity for victory must be asserted ever more strongly. This was the theme of yesterday's unreal US press conference in Baghdad, identical in substance to one I attended there three years ago. There is talk of staying the course, of sticking by friends and of not cutting and running. Every day some general or diplomat hints at ultimatums, timelines and even failure - as did the British foreign secretary, Margaret Beckett, on Monday. But officially denial is all. Forr retreat to be tolerable it must be called victory.

The US and British are covering their retreat. Operation Together Forward II has been an attempt, now failed, to pacify Baghdad during Ramadan. In Basra, Britain is pursuing Operation Sinbad to win hearts and minds that it contrives constantly to lose. This may be an advance on Kissinger's bombing of Laos to cover defeat in Vietnam and Reagan's shelling of the Shouf mountains to cover his 1984 Beirut "redeployment" (two days after he had pledged not to cut and run). But retreat is retreat, even if it is called redeployment. Every exit strategy is unhappy in its own way.

Over Iraq the spin doctors are already at work. They are telling the world that the occupation will have failed only through the ingratitude and uselessness of the Iraqis themselves. The rubbishing of the prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki, has begun in Washington, coupled with much talk of lowered ambitions and seeking out that foreign policy paradigm, "a new strongman". In May, Maliki signalled to Iraq's governors, commanders and militia leaders the need to sort out local differences and take control of their provincial destinies. This has failed. Maliki is only as strong as the militias he can control, which is precious few. He does not rule Baghdad, let alone Iraq. As for the militias, they are the natural outcome of the lawlessness caused by foreign occupation. They represent Iraqis desperately defending themselves from anarchy. It is now they who will decide Iraq's fate.

The only sensible post-invasion scenario was, ironically, that once attributed to Donald Rumsfeld, to topple Saddam Hussein, give a decapitated army to the Shias and get out at once. There would have been a brief and bloody settling of accounts and some new regime would have seized power. The outcome would probably have been partial or total Kurdish and Sunni secession, but by now a new Iraq confederacy might have settled down. Instead this same partition seems likely to follow a drawn-out and bloody civil conflict. It is presaged by the fall of Amara to the Mahdist militias this month - and the patent absurdity of the British re-occupying this town.

Washington appears to have given Maliki until next year to do something to bring peace to his country. Or what? America and Britain want to leave. As a settler said in Aden, "from the moment they knew we were leaving their loyalties turned elsewhere". Keeping foreign troops in Iraq will not "prevent civil war", as if they were doing that now. They are largely preoccupied with defending their fortress bases, their presence offering target practice for insurgents and undermining any emergent civil authority in Baghdad or the provinces. American and British troops may be in occupation but they are not in power. They have not cut and run, but rather cut and stayed.

The wretched Iraqis must wait as their cities endure civil chaos until one warlord or another comes out on top. In the Sunni region it is conceivable that a neo-Ba'athist secularism might gain the ascendancy. In the bitterly contested Shia areas, a fierce fundamentalism is the likely outcome. As for Baghdad, it faces the awful prospect of being another Beirut.

This country has been turned by two of the most powerful and civilised nations on Earth into the most hellish place on Earth. Armies claiming to bring democracy and prosperity have brought bloodshed and a misery worse than under the most ruthless modern dictator. This must be the stupidest paradox in modern history. Neither America nor Britain has the guts to rule Iraq properly, yet they lack the guts to leave.

Blair speaks of staying until the job is finished. What job? The only job he can mean is his own.

simon.jenkins@guardian.co.uk

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
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   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Brassmask

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2006, 12:05:22 PM »
But, but, but...!

Cheney disagrees.  But he does use "overall" to give the true-believers an out.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/17/cheney-rush/

CHENEY: Well, I think there’s some natural level of concern out there because in fact, you know, it wasn’t over instantaneously. It’s been a little over three years now since we went into Iraq, so I don’t think it’s surprising that people are concerned.

On the other hand, this government has only been in office about five months, five or six months now. They’re off to a good start. It is difficult, no question about it, but we’ve now got over 300,000 Iraqis trained and equipped as part of their security forces. They’ve had three national elections with higher turnout than we have here in the United States. If you look at the general overall situation, they’re doing remarkably well.

It’s still very, very difficult, very tough. Nobody should underestimate the extent to which we’re engaged there with this sort of, at present, the “major front” of the war on terror. That’s what Osama bin Laden says, and he’s right.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2006, 12:07:09 PM »
Excellent article.  The quote from Aden, "As soon as they saw we were leaving, their loyalties turned elsewhere" is grounded in the reality that all foreign occupations end sooner or later, and when they do, those who collaborated will face a merciless death.  Unless they cover their ass first by building up some kind of favour bank with the native Resistance.  This is why puppet troops and collaborationist police can never replace the occupying forces - - they are riddled with Resistance infiltrators and more venal favour-seekers.  As the invaders' resolve weakens, their puppets' preoccupations are more and more centred around self-preservation after the inevitable departure of the invaders.

Americans, because of their phenomenal ignorance of history and their unprecedented arrogance either do not realize this at all or if they do, believe that their power will prevail in the end over their puppets' instincts for self-preservation.

_JS

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2006, 03:49:56 PM »
One thing to note is that the author is not a leftist. Jenkins was political editor of The Economist then editor of The Times.

One excellent part of the article is that he points out the U.S. and U.K's early policy of blaming the Iraqis for losing.

Quote
They are telling the world that the occupation will have failed only through the ingratitude and uselessness of the Iraqis themselves.

I think we will see more of this. It is the last vestige of face-saving for the Bush and Blair regimes. "We did all we could, but the Iraqis weren't up to the task."
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2006, 03:54:21 PM »
When did the US say that we were staying permanantly?


What Iriqui faction wants us to stay permanantly?


Is this another example of a ringing criticism of a strawman?

_JS

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2006, 04:12:31 PM »
We said we'd stay until we defeated the enemies to the Iraqi government. Would that not indicate years, possibly decades of commitment.

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 05:06:49 PM »
If anyone remembers Viet Nam, they (the U.S.) first killed off the two Roman Catholics who originally ran the franchise for them (the Diem brothers) because of their alleged lack of rapport with the people, and then brought in and replaced in rapid succession almost a dozen puppet "leaders" before finally settling on Thieu ("the Winston Churchill of Asia," according to LBJ) to ride it out.  It's kind of interesting that in Iraq, they seem to be sticking with al Maliki, probably because they don't think it's worth the effort to find a replacement captain for a ship they are planning to be leaving very shortly.  (They had already forced the Iraqi "Parliament" to reject its first choice in favour of al Maliki.)  So we shall soon see how serious their intention to stay is, by what happens to al Maliki. 

(The alternative theory would be that Viet Nam taught them that one stooge is pretty much the same as the other, so it's better to stay with the first one ya pick.  But that's assuming that American politicians can learn from past mistakes, whereas it's obvious that they don't learn anything from anything.)

sirs

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 06:41:44 PM »
We said we'd stay until we defeated the enemies to the Iraqi government. Would that not indicate years, possibly decades of commitment.

And even accepting the "decades" reference that implies "permanancy" to you??  Did you also notice we still have forces in Europe following WWII?  South Korea following the Korean War?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2006, 08:04:58 PM »
Quote
We said we'd stay until we defeated the enemies to the Iraqi government. Would that not indicate years, possibly decades of commitment.

I presume that is just a paraphrase. I believe we said we would stay until the Iraqi government was able to provide for its own security.

There is a big difference between the two statements.


_JS

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 10:05:19 AM »
Quote
And even accepting the "decades" reference that implies "permanancy" to you??  Did you also notice we still have forces in Europe following WWII?  South Korea following the Korean War?

Considering my home country Sirs, I'm well aware of American forces in Europe. The Korean War was settled by cease fire, a completely different situation.

Quote
I presume that is just a paraphrase. I believe we said we would stay until the Iraqi government was able to provide for its own security.

There is a big difference between the two statements.

Isn't that the problem though?

Isn't that what the author is saying?

Our policy was always "cut and run." The question was only, "when?". That's the only difference in any of the arguments. Bush, Republicans, Democrats, you, Brass, UP, etc...have always seen this as temporary. We had a general who talked about troops leaving around Christmas.

I get accused by others of "doom and gloom," but really I want the same thing you (Bt) do, I think. We're there. We're there under some lousy circumstances, but we are there. Now we owe the Iraqis something. Yet, our policy, even under "the decider" has always been cut and run. That's what Simon Jenkins is saying. Bush and company never intended to see this thing through, nor have any of the other politicians in Washington.

As I said in an earlier thread, we suck at colonialism. It takes a long damn time to build the institutions necessary for a country to adopt the type of government we want Iraq to have. And that includes peaceful time, let alone time when we are under fire constantly. Yet, people like Sirs are buying all this about Iraq's elections and constitution, but they are meaningless. They have no tradition and no enforcement capability. The United States and Britain want the fastest possible exit route and that means assembly line Iraqification. The militias know this. They are just giving us the extra kick in the pants on our way out as they jockey for position in the inevitable power vacuum we'll leave.

The reason I agree on leaving is that we're doing it half-ass anyway. This is "peace with honor." All that entails is more soldiers dying and a longer civil war for Iraq. If I thought the administration had a pair then I might feel differently. Yet, from the very beginning, it has been "cut and run" just that one side wants to rip the band-aid off and the other wants to pull on it gradually.

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2006, 10:26:07 AM »
The plan was to stay in Iraq as long as there was any of OUR oil left under THEIR sand.

The bases the US built are permanent.

But I don't see this as being the eventual outcome. No US troops are being killed in South Korea or Europe. There is an actual enemy in South Korea right across the border in the DRNK, and the PRC is also a threat.

In Europe, Russia could be some sort of threat.

In Iraq the potential enemies are Iraqis, and they are angry, dangerous and shooting Iraqis.

Will we be forced to witness another rescue by copter from the roof of the US Embassy?

Are we stupid enough to elect more asshole imperialist bungling warmongering Republicans?

Or will they simply steal more elections?

Stay tuned...
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2006, 10:54:02 AM »
JS

I appreciate you taking the time to explain your position instead of regurgitating the normal cliche ridden mantras we have become accustomed to by those who are more interested in attacking Bush than taking a deeper look at US Foreign Policy as it relates to Iraq.

So let's examine a few of your points.

I don't believe this is an attempt at colonization. This is nowhere like India under British Rule or any of the African nations that were colonies of European powers for centuries. I don't believe Japan was a colony after WWII nor do i believe Iraq is now. So i don't think it is fair to hold Iraq as an example of sucking at something we aren't trying to do.

The goal as far as Iraq was concerned since 1998 was regime change and that goal has been accomplished. The goal as presently stated is to provide enough security to the elected Iraqi government as needed so that they can consolidate their position enough to provide their own security.How long has this elected government been in office? Less than a year? Some people expected this to happen over night i suppose. Don't think that is realistic. And i don't see how that translates into a cut and run strategy. No more than WWII was a cut and run strategy, both the actual hostilities and the occupations of Germany and Japan that followed.

And i don't think it is surprising that there are warring factions in Iraq. Heck we have warring factions here in America if you take half the rhetoric spouted on these boards seriously.

I'm reading a lot of conflating of Iraq with VN war terminology. Things like Iraqification, which i buy, and "peace with honor" which i don't. I think that is more sloganeering than cogent thought.  

This is what i foresee. In the next twelve months no matter which party controls congress, the US military in Iraq will become far more aggressive. I think they will be chopping off the heads of the stronger militias and forcefully pacifying the larger cities. I think that there will be Iraqi officials who won't make the cut and will be driven out of office. I think there may be an agreement for a national oil trust and a possible move for three semi autonomous regions with a federal government to handle national affairs. All three sectarian interests will share in the oil revenue.

I think it is going to get ugly before it gets better and i hope the American people have the stones to ride it out. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't,  but one never knows. I think success in Iraq is that important to the region.




_JS

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2006, 12:19:54 PM »
Quote
I don't believe this is an attempt at colonization. This is nowhere like India under British Rule or any of the African nations that were colonies of European powers for centuries. I don't believe Japan was a colony after WWII nor do i believe Iraq is now. So i don't think it is fair to hold Iraq as an example of sucking at something we aren't trying to do.

No, but maybe that's the problem. Japan was not a colony after World War II, but it was also a peaceful transfer of power. Also, Americans have a poor conception of Japanese history. Japan already had an elected assembly and a constitution from the Meiji Constitution in the late 19th Century. They based it primarily on the Prussian constitution and though it wasn't as liberal as the British system, it was by no means the brutal dictatorship like Iraq. The Japanese adopted a civil code of laws and legal structure similar to France also in the late 19th Century. So, I don't buy the historical similarity of Iraq and Japan. Japan was already making progress towards a liberal society, many years before Tojo came along.

Quote
The goal as far as Iraq was concerned since 1998 was regime change and that goal has been accomplished. The goal as presently stated is to provide enough security to the elected Iraqi government as needed so that they can consolidate their position enough to provide their own security.How long has this elected government been in office? Less than a year? Some people expected this to happen over night i suppose. Don't think that is realistic. And i don't see how that translates into a cut and run strategy. No more than WWII was a cut and run strategy, both the actual hostilities and the occupations of Germany and Japan that followed.

Again, Germany and Japan were not similar to Iraq. I've already outlined why, but there are some other notable differences. For one, there was no active violent resistance to American or British troops being stationed there. Also, it was well known that we'd be there for quite some time. As you know, it came as a surprise to some when we started pulling troops out of Germany. We were not actively seeking to leave. West Germany and Japan were instant allies. We knew we couldn't lose them to Communism, in the 1950's the Soviets were doing quite well in rebuilding their economy and settling disputes with the Eastern Bloc and China. Losing Japan and West Germany were unthinkable. I don't mean losing them militarily (though some saw it as a possibility), I mean losing them to a groundswell of support if we didn't help both to develop economically. We don't see that concern in Iraq - not amongst the right, left, or even the soldiers.

Quote
And i don't think it is surprising that there are warring factions in Iraq. Heck we have warring factions here in America if you take half the rhetoric spouted on these boards seriously.

I agree.

Quote
I'm reading a lot of conflating of Iraq with VN war terminology. Things like Iraqification, which i buy, and "peace with honor" which i don't. I think that is more sloganeering than cogent thought.

"Peace with honor" may have been a stretch on my part, but remember it isn't what I think that matters. The most important aspect is what the Iraqis see and think. In my opinion they see a "coalition" that doesn't really want to be there to help them. They seem to want to get out as quickly as possible. And isn't that our recent history in tough situations? Lebanon, Somalia, Rwanda, Afghanistan?

Quote
I think it is going to get ugly before it gets better and i hope the American people have the stones to ride it out. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't,  but one never knows. I think success in Iraq is that important to the region.

I think it is important, but I don't blame the people. I think shouts of "the media doesn't show enough good..." have turned people off. It has devolved into partisan garbage while people continue to die and the leadership has quite frankly been poor. It should have never been explained as "pockets of Saddam loyalists" and other such trivial views. Americans needed to be dealt with the reality from the beginning. I'm not being a partisan hack, I'm just telling it like I see it. Changing slogans, as you point out, is meaningless now.

 




I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2006, 01:06:04 PM »
<<I don't believe this is an attempt at colonization. This is nowhere like India under British Rule or any of the African nations that were colonies of European powers for centuries. I don't believe Japan was a colony after WWII nor do i believe Iraq is now. So i don't think it is fair to hold Iraq as an example of sucking at something we aren't trying to do. >>

Well, I don't think it's fair to pick pre-WWII British colonialism as the only model of colonialism and then try to argue that America's presence in Iraq can't be colonialism because it doesn't match your chosen model of colonialism, as if your model were the only kind. 

The American aim in Iraq might best be described as neo-colonial, where the rule of the colonizing power is hidden behind a facade of puppet "self-government" installed by U.S. firepower and kept in line by a combination of subsidies, secret police, "advisers" and (if need be) U.S. troops either based in the colony itself or ready to invade on a moment's notice.  Sometimes the most effective means of control is the puppets' own knowledge that that without massive outside support, they will be literally torn to pieces by their own people, as in fact happened to the last British neo-colonialist government of Iraq, who were beaten to unrecognizable pulps, their corpses dragged through the streets by enraged mobs.  The puppet government lines its own pockets including the pockets of a very narrow stratum of local society with which it is allied, and cooperates limply with the colonizing power (ir in Iraq's case, colonizing powers, because Britain surely had a hand in this) in looting the country's natural resources through sweetheart deals with the colonizers' hand-picked concessionnaires.  It's a tried and true model that has worked well in Central America and the Middle East for a long time now, and attempts by Nasser, Mossadegh and, lately, Saddam Hussein, to break the mould, have largely been smashed one way or another by the U.S. and/or Great Britain.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 01:09:05 PM by Michael Tee »

BT

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Re: The Most Hellish Place on Earth
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2006, 02:22:14 PM »
Quote
The American aim in Iraq might best be described as neo-colonial, where the rule of the colonizing power is hidden behind a facade of puppet "self-government" installed by U.S. firepower and kept in line by a combination of subsidies, secret police, "advisers" and (if need be) U.S. troops either based in the colony itself or ready to invade on a moment's notice.

Using that model western europe was a neo-colony of the US (NATO) and East Europe was a neo-colony of the Soviet Union.

I don't think it quite worked like that.