Author Topic: alright damn it- lets talk about it  (Read 9503 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

fatman

  • Guest
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2008, 01:14:15 PM »
It wouldn't fly here.  I already pay for a "license" to smoke.  It's a $.39 a pack Federal tax and a $2.025 state tax.  That's per pack.  Let's say I smoke 2 packs a day.  That's $2.415 X 2, or $4.43 per day.  Multiply that times 365 for a year, and you have $1,616.95 per year.  I think that that covers my "license".

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2008, 01:15:56 PM »
Same in Canada - - only the group is the entire Provincial population.

So, in Canada, everyone pays a fixed monthly premium?

What is that monthly premium in Ontario? Canadian dollars is fine...
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2008, 01:19:39 PM »
I think we used to pay a premium a long time ago, at the beginning.  Now it just comes out of our taxes.  I have no idea - - we pay income tax once to the Federal Government, but included in that is some Ontario Provincial tax, from which the Province presumably operates the OHIP (the health plan) with direct Federal grant assistance based on individual Federal-Provincial agreements negotiated with each Province separately.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2008, 01:21:28 PM »
I think we used to pay a premium a long time ago, at the beginning.  Now it just comes out of our taxes.

So, then it's NOT like the group policies in the US, where everyone in the group pays the same amount.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

fatman

  • Guest
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2008, 01:25:50 PM »
Personally, I'd tax the shit out of the tobacco companies, tax their profits and then tax their after-tax earnings and investments with special health-care taxes.  They're already heavily taxed, but nowhere near heavily enough.  If they insist on selling poison, they gotta pay for the cure.

So, with the fat kid epidemic we have now, we should also tax the the shit out of Hostess, Little Debbie, Frito-Lay, Dreyers, McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, Sonic, Jack in the Box, Hardee's, and Dairy Queen?  Make them pay for the cure?  In my line of work I have a 5X risk of cancer to start with, should we be taxing all pipe welders/fitters to cover that cost too?  Here's the funny thing about the cigarette tax in my state.  Look at how it breaks down:

1. Health Care $1.01
2. General Fund   23.0 cents
3. Programs to Stop Youth Violence  10.5 cents
4. Water quality     8.0 cents
5. Education Programs    60.0 cents

Other than the health care, which goes to the state plan that I make too much to qualify for, what the hell do the rest of these have to do with cigarettes?  If you're going to tax me for it, fine, but put the money back where it benefits me, the payee, not to water quality or youth violence BS.  I'm not even going to talk about the billions of dollars in tobacco settlements that the state got, and where THAT money went.  The whole thing is assinine.  Taxing the product doesn't benefit the consumer, at least not in my state.  It might benefit everyone else, but not the consumer.

Washington State cigarette tax breakdown:  http://www.liq.wa.gov/tobacco/tobacco.asp

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2008, 01:31:11 PM »
Logically, tobacco and liquor taxes should be spent on medically treating the damages to the hearts, lungs, livers and other parts of smokers and drinkers of these products. There should also be a portion spent on anti-smoking and anti-drinking announcements. This is what they used to do in Sweden, and may still do.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

fatman

  • Guest
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2008, 01:34:10 PM »
Well XO, that'd be, well, logical.  God forbid the government should do something logical.

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2008, 01:35:11 PM »
yeah i think someone that smokes 4 packs a day should pay more
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2008, 01:35:33 PM »
<<So, then it's NOT like the group policies in the US, where everyone in the group pays the same amount.>>

Well, I guess the taxpayers in one province pay a different per capita amount than those in the other provinces.  But for each Provincial health plan, all the people in the province are covered out of the general tax revenues - - there is no individual premium.

fatman

  • Guest
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2008, 01:37:10 PM »
yeah i think someone that smokes 4 packs a day should pay more

why?

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2008, 01:42:01 PM »
But for each Provincial health plan, all the people in the province are covered out of the general tax revenues - - there is no individual premium.

So, they pay a varying amount depending on their income, for the same access to services.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2008, 01:51:09 PM »
yeah i think someone that smokes 4 packs a day should pay more
why?


Because I believe smoking is a very easy to define non-debateable volunteer destructive habit and
smokers should not have their health care premiums subsidized by people that choose not to smoke.

btw: I am speaking of personal insurance policies. I favor personal policies over gvt or employment health care policies.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2008, 01:55:40 PM »
"So, with the fat kid epidemic we have now, we should also tax the the shit out of Hostess,
Little Debbie, Frito-Lay, Dreyers, McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, Sonic, Jack in the Box, Hardee's,
and Dairy Queen?"


You can get salads or grilled chicken at all of the above restaurants
So they don't sell exclusively unhealthy products
Cigarette companies on the other hand only sell very destructive products that serve no other purpose
A Little Debbie may be not as healthy as something else but it does provide some nourishment
Cigarettes provide nothing but destruction and nicotine high
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

fatman

  • Guest
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2008, 02:01:21 PM »
Because I believe smoking is a very easy to define non-debateable volunteer destructive habit and

Soooo, if I smoke but am otherwise healthy and in shape with no major health problems, I should pay more than the diabetic who's 70 lbs overweight and won't control his disease?  I should pay more than the guy who eats at McDonald's 5 times a week?  I should pay more than someone so fat that when they die they have to remove part of their house to get them out?  What a load of crap.

smokers should not have their health care premiums subsidized by people that choose not to smoke.

Why not?  I'm paying for subsidization through my cigarette taxes for other people.  I'm subsidizing the overweight diabetic mentioned above.  I'm paying for the alcoholic and the drug abuser.  So why shouldn't I get mine?

I don't know anyone who smokes 4 packs a day anymore.  2 and half is my limit, the most I've ever seen someone else do on a regular basis was my grandfather, who smoked three packs and lived to be 89, smoking the whole time.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2008, 02:04:58 PM »
Cigarettes provide nothing but destruction and nicotine high

===================================================
I smoked for 20 years, and I never experienced anything much like a 'high': just a slight feeling of dizzyness that lasted for about 30 seconds after the first smoke of the day.

There was a lot of coughing, and the expense. There is no logical reason to smoke, it';s just an addiction with no redeeming qualities.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."