Author Topic: While Geo Allen was praying to the confedacy , hating blacks and draft dodging  (Read 10245 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mucho

  • Guest
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/print.cfm?story=113303&ran=33810


James Webb's Navy Cross
The Virginian-Pilot
© October 27, 2006
Last updated: 5:10 PM

Editor's note: The Navy Cross is the nation's second-highest award for bravery in facing an enemy. James Webb has refused to use it in his campaign. We are publishing it with our endorsement of him because we believe it testifies to his character.

The Navy Cross is presented to James H. Webb, Jr., First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps, for extraordinary heroism while serving as a Platoon Commander with Company D, First Battalion, Fifth Marines, First Marine Division (Reinforced), Fleet Marine Force, in connection with combat operations against the enemy in the Republic of Vietnam.

On 10 July 1969, while participating in a company-sized search and destroy operation deep in hostile territory, First Lieutenant Webb's platoon discovered a well-camouflaged bunker complex which appeared to be unoccupied. Deploying his men into defensive positions, First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out.

Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers.

Accompanied by one of his men, he then approached the second bunker and called for the enemy to surrender. When the hostile soldiers failed to answer him and threw a grenade which detonated dangerously close to him, First Lieutenant Webb detonated a claymore mine in the bunker aperture, accounting for two enemy casualties and disclosing the entrance to a tunnel.

Despite the smoke and debris from the explosion and the possibility of enemy soldiers hiding in the tunnel, he then conducted a thorough search which yielded several items of equipment and numerous documents containing valuable intelligence data. Continuing the assault, he approached a third bunker and was preparing to fire into it when the enemy threw another grenade.

Observing the grenade land dangerously close to his companion, First Lieutenant Webb simultaneously fired his weapon at the enemy, pushed the Marine away from the grenade, and shielded him from the explosion with his own body.

Although sustaining painful fragmentation wounds from the explosion, he managed to throw a grenade into the aperture and completely destroy the remaining bunker.

By his courage, aggressive leadership, and selfless devotion to duty, First Lieutenant Webb upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and of the United States Naval Service.




Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Yeah, but what kind of man is he if he can't fight the enemy at home by stuffing severed deer heads into their mailboxes?

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Yeah, but what kind of man is he if he can't fight the enemy at home by stuffing severed deer heads into their mailboxes?

"Two Louisa County sheriff's deputies who were on the force in the early '70s said in interviews with the Daily Press that they recall no complaints about severed animal heads. Retired Lt. Robert Rigsby said he was in charge of investigations in the early '70s, and any such report would have gone through him. 'I think that's a myth,' Rigsby said. Another veteran officer, Deputy William Seay, also could recall no such incident. Local authorities have stated that they do not know if records from so long ago would be preserved. A search of Louisa County's weekly newspaper, The Central Virginian, for the years 1972 through 1974 yielded no account of a severed animal head being discovered in a mailbox during the months that traditionally constitute deer season, October through January. The leader of the Louisa County chapter of the NAACP, Stewart Cooke, also said in a telephone interview that he had not heard of such an incident."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_(U.S._politician)

But of course, just because there is no evidence that it happened must be proof that it happened and there was a coverup, right?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
<<But of course, just because there is no evidence that it happened must be proof that it happened and there was a coverup, right?>>

Well, there happens to be plenty of evidence that it happened.  There is the evidence of one of the three members of the hunting party, which is what broke the story.  There is the evidence of a friend of the second member (since deceased) of the hunting party, who heard the story of the severed deer's head (minus the racial element) from the dead man.  And there is the collateral evidence of Sen. Macacawitz' racism and hostility to blacks ("Welcome to the real America, macaca.")

However, I do want to thank you for my first big laugh of the day - - your child-like faith that whenever a racist atrocity happened to a black family decades ago in a racist southern town, the very first thing that they would do would be to rush down to their friendly white racist police to complain.  An action which would have no conceivable up-side for them, and, depending on the power and influence of whoever placed the deer head in the mailbox, might even get them killed for their trouble.  ("Oh, but this is America, stuff like that couldn't happen in America.")

I guess you're living proof of what happens when you feed impressionable young minds on a steady diet of Walt Disney movies and God-Bless-America TV specials.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16139
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
So Webb was also a psycho killer of freedom fighters? Should low lying fruit like that be elected to the Senate?

Mucho

  • Guest
So Webb was also a psycho killer of freedom fighters? Should low lying fruit like that be elected to the Senate?


Better than deer beheaders , dontcha know?

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16139
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Quote
Better than deer beheaders , dontcha know?

Deer are to held in higher respect than human beings?

You want to rethink that one?


Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
<<So Webb was also a psycho killer of freedom fighters? Should low lying fruit like that be elected to the Senate?>>

Yeah, because I like the way the guy writes.  It's not as if the racist ass-holes of Virginia have a real choice.  It's between two racist psycho ass-holes.  Let's face it, this IS representative government, isn't it?  They are voting for somebody to represent them.  Who should they pick for that great honour?  A Jewish liberal from Columbia University?  Basically a guy like Webb is what they deserve.  He won't have any more regard for them than for the Vietnamese resistance fighters that he tortured and killed.  He'll fuck them up the ass first and every chance that he gets and line his pockets while they go from bad to worse, till he gets caught, retires or dies.  That's America.  If they don't like it, they should have insisted on better candidates.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
your child-like faith that whenever a racist atrocity happened to a black family decades ago in a racist southern town, the very first thing that they would do would be to rush down to their friendly white racist police to complain.  An action which would have no conceivable up-side for them, and, depending on the power and influence of whoever placed the deer head in the mailbox, might even get them killed for their trouble.  ("Oh, but this is America, stuff like that couldn't happen in America.")

Well, actually, I can document a large number of "racist atrocities" that happened in "racist southern towns" so it must be very conceivable that it would be documented. If a large number of them are indeed documented with police reports and news accounts, then I find it highly inconceivable that this one action went undocumented, especially if it was part of an ongoing series of events in his life, as you claim.

So, I guess you did take the "proof by lack of evidence" tack in this case as well.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Mucho

  • Guest
Quote
Better than deer beheaders , dontcha know?

Deer are to held in higher respect than human beings?

You want to rethink that one?



Anyone would prefer brave men such as Kerry & Webb over cowards like Bush & Allen. Unless you were blinded by greed & tax-cit lust like most Repubs.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
<<Well, actually, I can document a large number of "racist atrocities" that happened in "racist southern towns" so it must be very conceivable that it would be documented. >>

I think I see your problem.  It is a basic ignorance of fundamental principles of logic.  For instance, the number of racist atrocities that are documented is no proof at all that every racist atrocity is documented.  Furthermore, since by definition, the number of racist atrocities that are NOT reported is virtually unknowable to you, your assertion that the number of racist atrocities that are reported is a "large number" is practically meaningless as there is nothing to compare it with.  You can't argue, for example, that 99% of all racist atrocities were reported, therefore the odds of this one happening unreported is one in a hundred.

<<If a large number of them are indeed documented with police reports and news accounts, then I find it highly inconceivable that this one action went undocumented, especially if it was part of an ongoing series of events in his life, as you claim.>>

Well, we already established that your "large number," having nothing to be compared to, is meaningless.  The theory that, as "part of an ongoing series of events in [Macacawitz'] life," this action would have to be documented, makes as little sense as the rest of your drivel.  Unless his proud parents were following him around with a camera to record his every little deed, why would a drunken and illegal episode that occurred in the middle of the night with two hunting companions "have to be documented?"

There are several excellent courses on logic available in bookstores and probably in community colleges as well.  I think you should start at the elementary level, the one that begins with the lesson "All men are mortal.  Socrates is a man.  Therefore . . . "  Soon you will come to understand why the absence of a police report in any circumstances (let alone racist hate crimes in a racist Southern community) is not necessarily proof that something did not occur.

It seems to me that you used to present much smarter arguments.  What is happening to you?

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16139
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Quote
Anyone would prefer brave men such as Kerry & Webb over cowards like Bush & Allen.

Apparently Mikey doesn't hold Webb in high regard. Perhaps he values human life over deer.

Basically a guy like Webb is what they deserve.  He won't have any more regard for them than for the Vietnamese resistance fighters that he tortured and killed.  He'll fuck them up the ass first and every chance that he gets and line his pockets while they go from bad to worse, till he gets caught, retires or dies. 

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
It seems to me that you used to present much smarter arguments.  What is happening to you?

I've dropped to the level of the person I'm debating.

Anyone that uses lack of evidence as "proof" that something happened is obviously not familiar with logic.

Most of your arguments among the last 2 years have been along the lines of "no evidence means it happened and there was a coverup" or "it is obvious."

It doesn't take much rigor to show either of those to be incorrect.

Perhaps when you start to present some actual sources and verifiable evidence, I'll respond in kind.

For instance, on this issue (deer heads in mailboxes) you have the word of one dead guy and one living guy that it happened. And the living guy doesn't remember Allen looking for a black neighborhood to drop the deer head off in (he claimed that they just did it at the first mailbox they came to after they thought up the idea), so the only evidence that it was racist is the dead guy, who can't be questioned about the incident. What a source. Also, the living guy is not sure it was Allen's idea to start with, he doesn't remember who came up with it.

And if you ask me for a source for my claim, I'm gonna use your quote from yesterday. Something along the lines of "if you want evidence, get off your lazy ass and look for it yourself instead of questioning me," wasn't it? Yeah, what intellectual rigor that statement holds.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Well, we already established that your "large number," having nothing to be compared to, is meaningless.

And at the same time, we have established that your claim that people don't report racist atrocities is also meaningless. You provided no hard numbers to back up your claim, after all.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
<<Anyone that uses lack of evidence as "proof" that something happened is obviously not familiar with logic.>>

Oh, please.  For the fifth or sixth time, the PROOF that it happened is the word of the hunting companion, who said they drove into the black neighbourhood deliberately, buttressed by the word of the guy who heard from the dead guy that Allen and he [the dead guy] and the guy who broke the story had suffed a deer head in a mail box.  YOU are the one who raised the lack of police documentation as evidence that it DIDN'T happen and I merely countered your argument - - with logic that even YOU cannot refute - - that the absence of a police report is not proof that it couldn't happen.

So please quite using your bullshit line that I am arguing for the incident happening based on the absence of police reporting that it did.  That's just not true and you know it.

<<Most of your arguments among the last 2 years have been along the lines of "no evidence means it happened and there was a coverup" or "it is obvious."

<<It doesn't take much rigor to show either of those to be incorrect.

<<Perhaps when you start to present some actual sources and verifiable evidence, I'll respond in kind.>>

Most of my arguments for the last two years were just as logical and coherent as this one, but stop trying to muddy the waters (a sure sign that you're losing this argument) and try to focus on what we're actually discussing in the here and now.  I don't have to defend my record of two years of arguments on probably hundreds of different subjects just because you want to focus attention away from the utterly asinine position that you have just taken here.

<<For instance, on this issue (deer heads in mailboxes) you have the word of one dead guy and one living guy that it happened. >>

Oh, yeah that's right.  Allen forgot to leave a hand-signed gift card with the deer's head and the hunting party did not wake up a dozen or so reputable citizens and bring them along to bear witness to this gallant act. 

<<And the living guy doesn't remember Allen looking for a black neighborhood to drop the deer head off in (he claimed that they just did it at the first mailbox they came to after they thought up the idea),>>

That's not my recollection of the man's story at all.  He said Allen asked where the black area was.

<< so the only evidence that it was racist is the dead guy, who can't be questioned about the incident. What a source.>>

Not my understanding.  I read that the living member of the hunting party said that Allen was asking for directions to the black area.

<< Also, the living guy is not sure it was Allen's idea to start with, he doesn't remember who came up with it.>>

I don't recall that at all.  More stupid logic, though.  If one guy rallies a lynch mob, your stupid reasoning lets off the whole mob and blames only the guy who thought it up in the first place?  Get a grip, for Christ sake.

<<And if you ask me for a source for my claim, I'm gonna use your quote from yesterday. Something along the lines of "if you want evidence, get off your lazy ass and look for it yourself instead of questioning me," wasn't it? >>

Fine by me.

<<Yeah, what intellectual rigor that statement holds.>>

There's a place for intellectual rigor, but that place is not a forum like this, where one's interlocutors are likely to ask for documented proof that shit runs downhill and the sun rises in the east.  I'll bring as much intellectual rigor to the debate as the debate deserves, and frankly, I've already invested way too much.  It's just completely ignored and I hear "with no evidence, Tee says . . . " as if nothing I ever dig up is evidence.  Fuck that.  I'm upset with myself for falling for that bullshit more than once.  Your request for "evidence" is made in bad faith.  You don't recognize it when it's produced and a few posts down you don't even admit any of it was produced.  Fuck that.  In the future, I will decide whether production of sources is warranted based on who is asking for it.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 03:30:59 PM by Michael Tee »