Unholy Trinity

[Michael Tee]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=67665

The Unholy Trinity - Death Squads, Disappearances and Torture

Kind of an overview.  Good for anyone who still believes the U.S. is a "moral" beacon in a sea of immorality. 

The only thing that kind of mildly surprised me was the allegation about Dershowitz - - that he has argued that judges be empowered to issue warrants authorizing torture by the insertion of sterile needles under people's fingernails, so as "to inflict excruciating pain without endangering life."

Am I the only one who is thinking that the U.S. has totally lost its moral compass here?  When a professor of LAW can make these arguments?

You know I posted this article without even knowing what to say about it.  Just wondering . . . does this disturb anybody?  What exactly do my friends on the right think about an article like this?  It sure disturbs the hell out of me.

[BT]

It is what it is.

America was founded with blood and it's history is awash with it.

What is surprising is that you find these revelations surprising.

[Michael Tee]

<<What is surprising is that you find these revelations surprising.>>

I think what I said about surprises was this:   <<The only thing that kind of mildly surprised me was the allegation about Dershowitz . . . >>

<<America was founded with blood and it's history is awash with it. >>

THAT'S IT???  Remarkably tolerant, IMHO.  If a gang of Hell's Angels burst into your house, raped all your female relatives, castrated every man and then left after setting the house on fire, you'd just shrug the whole thing off philosophically with a similar comment?  "Well, the Hell's Angels MC was founded in violence, so what else can we expect from them?"

You are pulling my leg, of course.  What do you REALLY think?  Does anybody think there is something wrong with this picture?  Steel needles are OK to insert under a guy's nails if they're STERILIZED?  This is OK?  And the reason it's OK is that America was founded in blood and violence?  Either you guys are crazy or I'm crazy.

[BT]

THAT'S IT???  Remarkably tolerant, IMHO.  If a gang of Hell's Angels burst into your house, raped all your female relatives, castrated every man and then left after setting the house on fire, you'd just shrug the whole thing off philosophically with a similar comment?  "Well, the Hell's Angels MC was founded in violence, so what else can we expect from them?"

Odds are i would return the violence or die trying. We all have our darkside.

What would you do?

[sirs]

THAT'S IT???  Remarkably tolerant, IMHO.  If a gang of Hell's Angels burst into your house, raped all your female relatives, castrated every man and then left after setting the house on fire, you'd just shrug the whole thing off philosophically with a similar comment?  "Well, the Hell's Angels MC was founded in violence, so what else can we expect from them?"

Odds are i would return the violence or die trying. We all have our darkside.  What would you do?

He'd negotiate with no preconditions, I'd imagine. 

[Michael Tee]

<<Odds are i would return the violence or die trying. We all have our darkside.

<<What would you do?>>

Same as you, naturally.  But what happened to, "Oh well they were born in violence and blood, what's the big surprise?"  Where did all your philosophical laissez-faire go?

[BT]

Where did all your philosophical laissez-faire go?

where do you get laissez-faire from what i posted.

You seem to think America is better than it is. I have no such delusions.

[Michael Tee]

<<You seem to think America is better than it is. I have no such delusions.>>

That's not even the point.  It sounds like you're perfectly satisfied with it the way that it is.

[BT]

That's not even the point.

Sure it is.

I learned a long time ago to accept the things I cannot change,

the courage to change the things I can,

and the wisdom to know the difference.

I have no more control over inner city thugs than i do goon squads in Paraquay.

Come to think of it, neither do you.

[Michael Tee]

Accepting things you can't change doesn't mean sitting on your ass and doing nothing about them.  You can bust your ass trying; accepting things you can't change just means coming to grips with the fact that you tried and failed. 

Besides which, until you try, you don't know what you can change and what you can't.  There are millions of people in the anti-war movement right now, busting their ass and suffering defeat every day that the killing goes on.  Only time will tell whether they could or could not change things.

According to your theory, George Washington was a schmuck for not accepting what he couldn't change.  But he tried, he recruited men of like minds and of course it turned out they COULD change things.

[Brassmask]

I've thought for years that nothing will shock me or outrage me now but when I heard about those checkpoints in DC and the ensuing huzzahs from those on the right about them, I freaked.

That's an infringement on the "presumed innocent" part of our justice system that I thought right-wingers would absolutely shut down immediately but I guess since they probably didn't have to go through that neighborhood, they don't care about rights so much.

[BT]

According to your theory, George Washington was a schmuck for not accepting what he couldn't change.  But he tried, he recruited men of like minds and of course it turned out they COULD change things.

You are aware that George Washington was a professional soldier. His job was to fight wars. He had the courage to change the things he could.

My experience with the antiwar movement of the 60-70's was that it was more about sex, than peace love and harmony.

There certainly was more action on the green under the blankets than there was on stage .

[BT]

I've thought for years that nothing will shock me or outrage me now but when I heard about those checkpoints in DC and the ensuing huzzahs from those on the right about them, I freaked.

Doesn't matter what we or the bleacher boys say. What matters is what the residents of the DC war zone neighborhoods say.

I suspect if you son were in danger of being killed by a stray drive by bullet you would welcome a strong police presence in your neighborhood.

[Universe Prince]

You seem to think America is better than it is. I have no such delusions.

Then again, there are those of us who think America should be better than it is. That it is not and that some folks in places of authority seem uninterested in that notion is sometimes a bit dismaying.

[Lanya]

America has been and can be again better than this. 
 We're torturing and killing people for nothing,  for nothing. 
Dershowitz has gone into the abyss and drank whatever foulness is in there, decided it was good.   He's lost his soul.