Author Topic: Helms Dead at Age 86  (Read 12331 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2008, 08:08:43 PM »
<<Still waiting........[to see when and where Tee condemned the "racism" of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright] you can do it Tee, show us the when & what for.  Should be a piece of cake for the likes of you>>

I don't consider Wright a racist. 

LOL....of course not.  It'd blow your blatant hypocrisy right out of the water.  Even Fat, a fella just as critical on the war as you are, concedes he's a racist.  A black racist, but still a racist.  the fact you can embrace him while trying like mad to condemn Helms, and pretty much anyone from the south as being racist, speaks volumes, and goes to show the rest of the forum, and those peeking in, just how far you'll go to pull and Obama...having it both ways, and getting nailed for it

BTW, the waiting was for you to show us the when & where with Helms, not Wright.  We already know the when's & where's with him



Still waiting, BTW



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2008, 08:40:48 PM »
<<LOL....of course not.  It'd blow your blatant hypocrisy right out of the water. >>

No, it wouldn't.  It would merely demonstrate the absurdity of calling Wright a racist.

<<Even Fat, a fella just as critical on the war as you are, concedes he's a racist.  A black racist, but still a racist. >>

With all due respect to fatman, am I somehow prevented from disagreeing with him on some issues just because we agree on others?  I would like to present the presumably novel idea that I have just as much right to my opinion on this as fatman does to his.

<< the fact you can embrace him while trying like mad to condemn Helms, and pretty much anyone from the south as being racist, speaks volumes, and goes to show the rest of the forum, and those peeking in, just how far you'll go to pull and Obama...having it both ways, and getting nailed for it>>

As far as I can see, all it demonstrates to any sane and normal individual is that I consider Helms a vicious racist for obvious reasons and I don't consider Wright to be a racist at all, or at most, if he is a racist, it's in a way that's nowhere near as harmful as Helms has been. 

<<BTW, the waiting was for you to show us the when & where with Helms, not Wright.  We already know the when's & where's with him

<<Still waiting, BTW>>

You're asking me the when's and where's of Helms' last racist act?  In the context of MY question, of when did you last condemn him?  That's a ridiculous trick question and I hope you don't think I am stupid enough to fall for it.  I asked you when you last condemned Helms, rhetorically, because of course you have not condemned him.  Refusing to answer MY question directly, you pretended it was as of his last racist act, an absurd standard unless you are talking to someone who is aware of every racist act that Helms ever committed.  Particularly absurd in view of the fact that the racist pig has just died TODAY, which would be an excellent opportunity for comment on his evil and his racism, because when else does a man's life and career become more a subject for review and comment than on the occasion of his death?

I am still waiting for YOU to give me a direct and unambiguous answer to my question, when did you ever condemn Jesse Helms for anything?  Please don't try to turn this around with a counter-question putting the onus on ME to tell you when Helms' last racist act was committed.  YOU, if anyone, should be aware of when you last condemned this man, and shifting the burden on me to answer for all of Helms' racist acts is ridiculous.

You can't answer my question because you never did condemn Helms for anything.  That's the simple truth.  You jumped in with both feet on the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's alleged "racism" but even on the occasion of Helms' death, had nothing critical to say about the man.  Now THAT really speaks volumes.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 08:43:28 PM by Michael Tee »

fatman

  • Guest
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2008, 10:06:13 PM »
An old article, but a surprisingly sharpened one by David Broder.

Jesse Helms, White Racist


By David S. Broder

Wednesday, August 29, 2001; Washington Post, Page A21


Those who believe that the "liberal press" always has its knives sharpened for Republicans and conservatives must have been flummoxed by the coverage of Sen. Jesse Helms's announcement last week that he will not run for reelection next year in North Carolina. The reporting on his retirement was circumspect to the point of pussyfooting.

On the day his decision became known, the New York Times described him as "a conservative stalwart for nearly 30 years," the Boston Globe as "an unyielding icon of conservatives and an archenemy of liberals." The Washington Post identified Helms as "one of the most powerful conservatives on Capitol Hill for three decades."

Those were accurate descriptions. But they skirted the point. There are plenty of powerful conservatives in government. A few, such as Don Rumsfeld and Henry Hyde, have been around as long as Helms and have their own significant roles in 20th century political history. What really sets Jesse Helms apart is that he is the last prominent unabashed white racist politician in this country -- a title that one hopes will now be permanently retired. A few editorials and columns came close to saying that. But the squeamishness of much of the press in characterizing Helms for what he is suggests an unwillingness to confront the reality of race in our national life.

My own paper, The Washington Post, carried three stories about Helms's departure. In their 54 paragraphs, exactly two -- the 10th paragraph of one story and the last paragraph of another -- alluded to the subject of race.

Let me be clear. Helms has fought many battles in his career, and whether you agreed with him or not on small issues such as the funding of the arts or large ones such as Cuba, China, the Panama Canal and the United Nations, you had to respect his right as an elected and reelected senator to fight for his beliefs.

Even if you thought, as I did, that he was petty and vindictive in using his power as a committee chairman to block the appointment of former Massachusetts governor William Weld as ambassador to Mexico and, just this year, to force concessions from President Bush on textile imports before the top Treasury officials could be confirmed, you had to admit that other senators also have used their leverage to advance personal political agendas.

What is unique about Helms -- and from my viewpoint, unforgivable -- is his willingness to pick at the scab of the great wound of American history, the legacy of slavery and segregation, and to inflame racial resentment against African Americans.

Many of the accounts of Helms's retirement linked him with another prospective retiree, Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina. Both these Senate veterans switched from the Democratic to the Republican Party when the Democrats began pressing for civil rights legislation in the 1960s. But there is a great difference between them. Thurmond, who holds the record for the longest anti-civil rights filibuster, accepted change. For three decades he has treated African Americans and black institutions as respectfully as he treats all his other constituents.

To the best of my knowledge, Helms has never done what the late George Wallace did well before his death -- recant and apologize for his use of racial issues. And that use was blatant.

In 1984, when Helms faced his toughest opponent in Democratic Gov. Jim Hunt, the late Bill Peterson, one of the most evenhanded reporters I have ever known, summed up what "some said was the meanest Senate campaign in history."

"Racial epithets and standing in school doors are no longer fashionable," Peterson wrote, "but 1984 proved that the ugly politics of race are alive and well. Helms is their master."

A year before the election, when public polls showed Helms trailing by 20 points, he launched a Senate filibuster against the bill making the birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. a national holiday. Thurmond and the Senate majority were on the other side, but the next poll showed Helms had halved his deficit.

All year, Peterson reported, "Helms campaign literature sounded a drumbeat of warnings about black voter-registration drives. . . . On election eve, he accused Hunt of being supported by 'homosexuals, the labor union bosses and the crooks' and said he feared a large 'bloc vote.' What did he mean? 'The black vote,' Helms said." He won, 52 percent to 48 percent.

In 1990, locked in a tight race with an African American Democrat, former Charlotte mayor Harvey Gantt, Helms aired a final-week TV ad that showed a pair of white hands crumpling a rejection letter, while an announcer said, "You needed that job and you were the best qualified. But they had to give it to a minority because of a racial quota." Once again, he pulled through.

That is not a history to be sanitized.

Article Link

Is this racist?  I don't tend to think so, though it definitely plays to race fears.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyewCdXMzk[/youtube]

And here are some somewhat startling quotes, the most recent as 1995 (it is worth noting that Helms never apologized for any of these quotes).

"There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy."

-- States News Service, 5/17/88

"What is really at stake is whether or not America will allow the cultural high ground in this nation to sink slowly into an abyss of slime to placate people who clearly seek or are willing to destroy the Judaic-Christian foundations of this republic."

-- 1990, on funding for the National Endowment for the Arts

"I've been portrayed as a caveman by some. That's not true. I'm a conservative progressive, and that means I think all men are equal, be they slants, beaners or niggers."

-- North Carolina Progressive, February 6, 1985

"Let me adjust my hearing aid. It could not accommodate the decibels of the Senator from Massachusetts. I can't match him in decibels or Jezebels, or anything else apparently."

-- 1993 Senate floor debate with Ted Kennedy

"All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction."

-- stated by Helms after Mexicans protested his visit to Mexico in 1986 to investigate allegations of political corruption.

"To rob the Negro of his reputation of thinking through a problem in his own fashion is about the same as trying to pretend that he doesn't have a natural instinct for rhythm and for singing and dancing. The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint that's thus far left him free to clog the streets, disrupt traffic, and interfere with other men's rights."

When a caller to CNN's Larry King Live show praised guest Jesse Helms for 'everything you've done to help keep down the niggers,' Helms' response was to salute the camera
and say, 'Well, thank you, I think.'"

--- Wilmington Star-News, 9/16/95

"If God had wanted us to use the metric system, Jesus would have had 10 apostles."

"The New York Times and The Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves."

University of North Carolina (UNC). "University of Negroes and Communists."

Metafilter
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 10:19:29 PM by fatman »

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2008, 12:40:20 AM »
From JESSE HELMS, WHITE RACIST, by David Broder
Wednesday, August 29, 2001; Washington Post, Page A21
http://www.racematters.org/jessehelmswhiteracist.htm

<<What really sets Jesse Helms apart is that he is the last prominent unabashed white racist politician in this country -- a title that one hopes will now be permanently retired. A few editorials and columns came close to saying that. But the squeamishness of much of the press in characterizing Helms for what he is suggests an unwillingness to confront the reality of race in our national life.>>

from L.A. Times Obit
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-helms5-2008jul05,0,2320291.story

<<And he was the only senator to vote against making the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday a national holiday. His lone dissent came only after he conducted a 16-day filibuster against the King holiday, during which Helms took to the Senate floor to decry the assassinated King, a pacifist and beloved civil rights leader, for his "action-oriented Marxism.">>

A thoroughly obnoxious, white racist pig.  Rot in Hell, Jesse.   Good riddance to bad rubbish.




Really tacky. Real low-class. Gonna put a couch on your front porch next? So much for not speaking ill of the dead. Real crass.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2008, 01:02:11 AM »
<<Really tacky. Real low-class. Gonna put a couch on your front porch next? So much for not speaking ill of the dead. Real crass.>>

So, Professor, ever said anything bad about Adolf Hitler?  Stalin?  Mao?

When the dead just happens to be a dead racist pig, what's REALLY tacky and low-class is to pretend there was nothing wrong with the guy and to whitewash everything he did.

fatman

  • Guest
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2008, 01:21:23 AM »
From JESSE HELMS, WHITE RACIST, by David Broder
Wednesday, August 29, 2001; Washington Post, Page A21
http://www.racematters.org/jessehelmswhiteracist.htm

<<What really sets Jesse Helms apart is that he is the last prominent unabashed white racist politician in this country -- a title that one hopes will now be permanently retired. A few editorials and columns came close to saying that. But the squeamishness of much of the press in characterizing Helms for what he is suggests an unwillingness to confront the reality of race in our national life.>>

from L.A. Times Obit
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-helms5-2008jul05,0,2320291.story

<<And he was the only senator to vote against making the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday a national holiday. His lone dissent came only after he conducted a 16-day filibuster against the King holiday, during which Helms took to the Senate floor to decry the assassinated King, a pacifist and beloved civil rights leader, for his "action-oriented Marxism.">>

A thoroughly obnoxious, white racist pig.  Rot in Hell, Jesse.   Good riddance to bad rubbish.




Really tacky. Real low-class. Gonna put a couch on your front porch next? So much for not speaking ill of the dead. Real crass.

I agree with that position Professor.  But allow me to point out for clarification that those comments weren't part of the Broder column, but in the comments section where any registered user can submit a comment.  Not everyone online has the thought processes of the people who populate this forum (and be thankful that they haven't found this place yet!)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2008, 01:24:30 AM »
<<But allow me to point out for clarification that those comments weren't part of the Broder column, but in the comments section where any registered user can submit a comment.  Not everyone online has the thought processes of the people who populate this forum (and be thankful that they haven't found this place yet!)>>

Huh?  Allow ME to point out for clarification that I am the originator of those comments and I stand behind them 100%.  A dead racist pig is a dead racist pig.  No point in placing a top-hat on his head and calling him a statesman.

fatman

  • Guest
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2008, 01:34:46 AM »
Oh God, my bad MT.

I don't know what the hell I was thinking.

My apologies.

And for the record, I don't like and never have liked Helms.  His early stance on AIDS, his unapologetic form of racism and his desire to continue institutionalized racism through segregation, and his attitude towards gays really turn me off.  But on the other hand, I don't tend to celebrate anyone's death, even if they deserve it.  That doesn't make me morally better than you, just a differing perspective on the matter.

Again, my apologies for miscontruing that.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2008, 01:41:24 AM »
Thanks, fatman, apology accepted.  No hard feelings.

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2008, 05:08:15 AM »
From JESSE HELMS, WHITE RACIST, by David Broder
Wednesday, August 29, 2001; Washington Post, Page A21
http://www.racematters.org/jessehelmswhiteracist.htm

<<What really sets Jesse Helms apart is that he is the last prominent unabashed white racist politician in this country -- a title that one hopes will now be permanently retired. A few editorials and columns came close to saying that. But the squeamishness of much of the press in characterizing Helms for what he is suggests an unwillingness to confront the reality of race in our national life.>>

from L.A. Times Obit
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-helms5-2008jul05,0,2320291.story

<<And he was the only senator to vote against making the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday a national holiday. His lone dissent came only after he conducted a 16-day filibuster against the King holiday, during which Helms took to the Senate floor to decry the assassinated King, a pacifist and beloved civil rights leader, for his "action-oriented Marxism.">>

A thoroughly obnoxious, white racist pig.  Rot in Hell, Jesse.   Good riddance to bad rubbish.




Really tacky. Real low-class. Gonna put a couch on your front porch next? So much for not speaking ill of the dead. Real crass.

Why not? Who here pulls punches for Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao? Why then should Mike pussyfoot around for Jesse Helms. And before some over-sensitive weasel says that I'm comparing Helms to Hitler, I'm not. But truth be told, some of Helms' views weren't all that much different. The man was an old Southern racist.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2008, 10:06:41 AM »
The guy was a real asshole. But he got votes because he brought home the bacon. Even people that voted for him generally hated his guts.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Lanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2008, 12:48:31 PM »
    I didn?t attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.

    -Mark Twain
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2008, 01:18:17 PM »
  <<I didn?t attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.>>

Now THAT'S funny.  Some of the folks around here probably would have sent condolence cards and insisted afterwards how much they really, really, really disapproved of "some of"his policies.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2008, 01:24:29 PM »
Now THAT'S funny.  Some of the folks around here probably would have sent condolence cards and insisted afterwards how much they really, really, really disapproved of "some of"his policies.

Tom Clancy is a real asshole, and I avoid him like the plague whenever we're in the same place, but I still read his books.

As I said, Helms is a real asshole, but he got votes because he did things that his constituents wanted him to do. His low point was probably singing "Dixie" to Carol Moseley Braun while she was in an elevator with him.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

R.R.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Helms Dead at Age 86
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2008, 01:35:24 PM »
Quote
Some of the folks around here probably would have sent condolence cards and insisted afterwards how much they really, really, really disapproved of "some of"his policies.

I can't think of any policies in which I disagreed with Jesse Helms. In fact, history has vindicated his positions. He was a strong anti-Communist, he tried to shut down the NEA and he tried to cut off funding to the UN. He was right on all fronts. He's somebody who truly advocated a limited government that was strong on national defense. I appreciate everything he did to get Ronald Reagan elected. Some say he resurrected Reagan's career in 1976. It breaks my heart to see all these rabid left wingers in here cheering his death. You guys are better than that; I would certainly hope so anyway.