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Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« on: November 04, 2006, 06:58:38 PM »

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612?printable=true&currentPage=all


VANITY FAIR EXCLUSIVE: NOW THEY TELL US
Neo Culpa
As Iraq slips further into chaos, the war's neoconservative boosters have turned sharply on the Bush administration, charging that their grand designs have been undermined by White House incompetence. In a series of exclusive interviews, Richard Perle, Kenneth Adelman, David Frum, and others play the blame game with shocking frankness. Target No. 1: the president himself.
by david rose vf.com november 3, 2006

Richard Perle. Photograph by Nigel Parry.
I remember sitting with Richard Perle in his suite at London's Grosvenor House hotel and receiving a private lecture on the importance of securing victory in Iraq. "Iraq is a very good candidate for democratic reform," he said. "It won't be Westminster overnight, but the great democracies of the world didn't achieve the full, rich structure of democratic governance overnight. The Iraqis have a decent chance of succeeding." Perle seemed to exude the scent of liberation, as well as a whiff of gunpowder. It was February 2003, and Operation Iraqi Freedom, the culmination of his long campaign on behalf of regime change in Iraq, was less than a month away.
Three years later, Perle and I meet again at his home outside Washington, D.C. It is October, the worst month for U.S. casualties in Iraq in almost two years, and Republicans are bracing for losses in the upcoming midterm elections. As he looks into my eyes, speaking slowly and with obvious deliberation, Perle is unrecognizable as the confident hawk who, as chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee, had invited the exiled Iraqi dissident Ahmad Chalabi to its first meeting after 9/11. "The levels of brutality that we've seen are truly horrifying, and I have to say, I underestimated the depravity," Perle says now, adding that total defeat—an American withdrawal that leaves Iraq as an anarchic "failed state"—is not yet inevitable but is becoming more likely. "And then," says Perle, "you'll get all the mayhem that the world is capable of creating."
According to Perle, who left the Defense Policy Board in 2004, this unfolding catastrophe has a central cause: devastating dysfunction within the administration of President George W. Bush. Perle says, "The decisions did not get made that should have been. They didn't get made in a timely fashion, and the differences were argued out endlessly.… At the end of the day, you have to hold the president responsible.… I don't think he realized the extent of the opposition within his own administration, and the disloyalty."

George W. Bush. Photograph by Annie Leibovitz.
Perle goes so far as to say that, if he had his time over, he would not have advocated an invasion of Iraq: "I think if I had been delphic, and had seen where we are today, and people had said, 'Should we go into Iraq?,' I think now I probably would have said, 'No, let's consider other strategies for dealing with the thing that concerns us most, which is Saddam supplying weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.' … I don't say that because I no longer believe that Saddam had the capability to produce weapons of mass destruction, or that he was not in contact with terrorists. I believe those two premises were both correct. Could we have managed that threat by means other than a direct military intervention? Well, maybe we could have."
Having spoken with Perle, I wonder: What do the rest of the pro-war neoconservatives think? If the much caricatured "Prince of Darkness" is now plagued with doubt, how do his comrades-in-arms feel? I am particularly interested in finding out because I interviewed many neocons before the invasion and, like many people, found much to admire in their vision of spreading democracy in the Middle East.
I expect to encounter disappointment. What I find instead is despair, and fury at the incompetence of the Bush administration the neoconservatives once saw as their brightest hope.
To David Frum, the former White House speechwriter who co-wrote Bush's 2002 State of the Union address that accused Iraq of being part of an "axis of evil," it now looks as if defeat may be inescapable, because "the insurgency has proven it can kill anyone who cooperates, and the United States and its friends have failed to prove that it can protect them." This situation, he says, must ultimately be blamed on "failure at the center"—starting with President Bush.
Kenneth Adelman, a lifelong neocon activist and Pentagon insider who served on the Defense Policy Board until 2005, wrote a famous op-ed article in The Washington Post in February 2002, arguing: "I believe demolishing Hussein's military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk." Now he says, "I just presumed that what I considered to be the most competent national-security team since Truman was indeed going to be competent. They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era. Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional."

Dick Cheney. Photograph by Annie Leibovitz.
Fearing that worse is still to come, Adelman believes that neoconservatism itself—what he defines as "the idea of a tough foreign policy on behalf of morality, the idea of using our power for moral good in the world"—is dead, at least for a generation. After Iraq, he says, "it's not going to sell." And if he, too, had his time over, Adelman says, "I would write an article that would be skeptical over whether there would be a performance that would be good enough to implement our policy. The policy can be absolutely right, and noble, beneficial, but if you can't execute it, it's useless, just useless. I guess that's what I would have said: that Bush's arguments are absolutely right, but you know what, you just have to put them in the drawer marked can't do. And that's very different from let's go."
I spend the better part of two weeks in conversations with some of the most respected voices among the neoconservative elite. What I discover is that none of them is optimistic. All of them have regrets, not only about what has happened but also, in many cases, about the roles they played. Their dismay extends beyond the tactical issues of whether America did right or wrong, to the underlying question of whether exporting democracy is something America knows how to do.
I will present my findings in full in the January issue of Vanity Fair, which will reach newsstands in New York and L.A. on December 6 and nationally by December 12. In the meantime, here is a brief survey of some of what I heard from the war's remorseful proponents.
Richard Perle: "In the administration that I served [Perle was an assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan], there was a one-sentence description of the decision-making process when consensus could not be reached among disputatious departments: 'The president makes the decision.' [Bush] did not make decisions, in part because the machinery of government that he nominally ran was actually running him. The National Security Council was not serving [Bush] properly. He regarded [then National-Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice] as part of the family."

Donald Rumsfeld. Photograph by Annie Leibovitz.
Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute freedom scholar: "Ask yourself who the most powerful people in the White House are. They are women who are in love with the president: Laura [Bush], Condi, Harriet Miers, and Karen Hughes."
Frank Gaffney, an assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan and founder of the Center for Security Policy: "[Bush] doesn't in fact seem to be a man of principle who's steadfastly pursuing what he thinks is the right course. He talks about it, but the policy doesn't track with the rhetoric, and that's what creates the incoherence that causes us problems around the world and at home. It also creates the sense that you can take him on with impunity."
Kenneth Adelman: "The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who've ever served in such key spots. And they get the highest civilian honor a president can bestow on anyone! That was the day I checked out of this administration. It was then I thought, There's no seriousness here, these are not serious people. If he had been serious, the president would have realized that those three are each directly responsible for the disaster of Iraq."
David Frum: "I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything."

Condoleezza Rice. Photograph by Annie Leibovitz.
Michael Rubin, former Pentagon Office of Special Plans and Coalition Provisional Authority staffer: "Where I most blame George Bush is that through his rhetoric people trusted him, people believed him. Reformists came out of the woodwork and exposed themselves." By failing to match his rhetoric with action, Rubin adds, Bush has betrayed Iraqi reformers in a way that is "not much different from what his father did on February 15, 1991, when he called the Iraqi people to rise up, and then had second thoughts and didn't do anything once they did."
Richard Perle: "Huge mistakes were made, and I want to be very clear on this: They were not made by neoconservatives, who had almost no voice in what happened, and certainly almost no voice in what happened after the downfall of the regime in Baghdad. I'm getting damn tired of being described as an architect of the war. I was in favor of bringing down Saddam. Nobody said, 'Go design the campaign to do that.' I had no responsibility for that."
Kenneth Adelman: "The problem here is not a selling job. The problem is a performance job.… Rumsfeld has said that the war could never be lost in Iraq, it could only be lost in Washington. I don't think that's true at all. We're losing in Iraq.… I've worked with [Rumsfeld] three times in my life. I've been to each of his houses, in Chicago, Taos, Santa Fe, Santo Domingo, and Las Vegas. I'm very, very fond of him, but I'm crushed by his performance. Did he change, or were we wrong in the past? Or is it that he was never really challenged before? I don't know. He certainly fooled me."
Eliot Cohen, director of the strategic-studies program at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and member of the Defense Policy Board: "I wouldn't be surprised if what we end up drifting toward is some sort of withdrawal on some sort of timetable and leaving the place in a pretty ghastly mess.… I do think it's going to end up encouraging various strands of Islamism, both Shia and Sunni, and probably will bring de-stabilization of some regimes of a more traditional kind, which already have their problems.… The best news is that the United States remains a healthy, vibrant, vigorous society. So in a real pinch, we can still pull ourselves together. Unfortunately, it will probably take another big hit. And a very different quality of leadership. Maybe we'll get it."
David Rose is a Vanity Fair contributing editor.

Plane

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2006, 07:28:36 PM »
 "the idea of a tough foreign policy on behalf of morality, the idea of using our power for moral good in the world"



Is that the definition of Neo conservatism?


This would make Teddy Rosevelt, Woodrow Wilson and JFK Neocconservatives.

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2006, 08:28:58 PM »
"the idea of a tough foreign policy on behalf of morality, the idea of using our power for moral good in the world"



Is that the definition of Neo conservatism?


This would make Teddy Rosevelt, Woodrow Wilson and JFK Neocconservatives.

That is what they would like ti think, but they are just demented , power hungry cowards I am afraid.

Lanya

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2006, 12:20:01 AM »
Massive failure of leadership, of ability to govern...and all I hear is crickets chirping. 


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Michael Tee

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2006, 01:03:56 AM »
What the author is describing is the death throes of a policy that had virtually no chance of succeeding in the first place, but whose failure was papered over by MSM failure to challenge the repeated lies of the Bush administration, not only as to the causus belli and the purported "reasons" for staying the course once the initial lies had been exposed, but also as to the "progress" being made by the invasion and occupation, and the "good news" that for some unexplained reason was being "overlooked" by the MSM.

In an almost identical replay of the children's fairy tale, "The Emperor's New Clothes," ran on until the inevitable moment of truth could no longer be postponed.  Here we are seeing the first cracks in the facade, where not only the administration's critics, but the very architects of the disaster themselves, are beginning to edge away from their creation, pointing to the one sucker left holding the bag, the hapless "President" George W. Bush.  "Victory has a thousand fathers, defeat is an orphan."

It was always a bit of a mystery to me how Bush and his cabinet could concoct the most outrageous lies, sell them to the American people, and come up with new and even more ridiculous lies to sell even as the old ones were left to rot and stink in the noon-day sun.  Sooner or later, I thought, the time will come when these lies can no longer be continued, when the facts become so undeniable that no amount of lying or promising future "victory" will be able to cover them up any more.  It looks like the jig is up.  These are pretty big rats that are jumping ship.

We know what will happen to tens of thousands of Americans as this war founded and sustained on lies and bullshit grinds to an inevitable defeat for America - - they will die in Iraq or come home mangled and crippled for life.  What we don't know is what will happen to this war's criminal architects - - will they just walk away from the disaster and write their memoirs?  Or will the American people muster up the strength and the courage to elect representatives who will see that Bush and his fellow conspirators are tried for their crimes and if convicted, duly punished according to law.  America just took a step closer to that day;

BT

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2006, 02:34:12 AM »
Quote
Massive failure of leadership, of ability to govern...and all I hear is crickets chirping.

I was at a city function this morning where a neighbor used those same words to me after asking whether i was a Bush apologist, when he learned my son was in the Navy.

He stopped by the house later that afternoon and apologized. He said he realized the issue was more complex than soundbites and slogans.

I was more disappointed than angry anyway. I accepted his apology.


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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2006, 04:11:38 AM »
Quote
Massive failure of leadership, of ability to govern...and all I hear is crickets chirping.

I was at a city function this morning where a neighbor used those same words to me after asking whether i was a Bush apologist, when he learned my son was in the Navy.

He stopped by the house later that afternoon and apologized. He said he realized the issue was more complex than soundbites and slogans.

I was more disappointed than angry anyway. I accepted his apology.



Ahh ! He apologized and knew the issue was more complex than soundbites. Musta been a Dem or one of their fellow travelers.

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2006, 04:28:15 AM »
Quote
Musta been a Dem or one of their fellow travelers

Yes ......that is why he used soundbites and slogans. 

He apologized because he is a neighbor and realized the issue is more complex than that.

Michael Tee

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2006, 11:49:11 AM »
<<He said he realized the issue was more complex than soundbites and slogans. >>

As a neighbour, that was a nice thing to say, and he was correct as far as he went.  Your neighbour sounds like a bit of an insensitive clod at times, but a basically decent guy at bottom.

The greatest complexities the human mind can imagine - - the functioning of the universe, for example - - have parts that are so complex that the human mind will never fully comprehend, and yet there are other parts that should be readily comprehensible, even to a moron.  That bears shit in the woods, that the Pope is Catholic.

So although the history of the Middle East in general, and Iraq in particular, is tangled and complex, it does not necessarily follow that every single part of the Middle East puzzle is equally tangled and complex or even that some parts cannot be readily comprehended by morons.  That Bush and his crew are charlatans and liars of the worst kind who have lied their country into an unwinnable war and continually painted rosy pictures of how wonderfully well the whole criminal enterprise was progressing, is one of the simplest parts of the puzzle.  That it may be a sound-bite or a slogan does not detract at all from its fundamental truth - - it's a sound-bite and a slogan that the American people are finally starting to get.

BT

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2006, 12:37:05 PM »
Quote
That it may be a sound-bite or a slogan does not detract at all from its fundamental truth

One of the items discussed was that the children of the elite were not being sacrificed in the Iraqi War.Cue Creedence.  I countered that the only way i knew of to ensure equitable class representation in the armed forces was to reinstitute the draft with no exemptions. I asked if he would be for that.

He said he just threw that one out there. I said i just threw it back.

Michael Tee

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2006, 01:38:05 PM »
You really believe that a draft with no exceptions is achievable?  I say the elmination of loopholes has always been the objective of every draft since the end of the Civil War and it's never been achieved.

A draft has to have exceptions otherwise it would take in quadraplegics and coma victims.  Once any exception is allowed, others creep in and all of them can and will be abused.  Still, the draft would spread the burden more equitably.

Tell ya the problem with a war-time draft.  The people have to support the war, if not unanmimously, then by a very, very broad margin.  This just isn't the case in the current conflict.  I'm not saying (here) that one side or the other is right or wrong.  That's not the point.  Like it or not, even the conservatives would have to admit that the pro-war faction however defined is NOT a wide majority of the American public.  Tell the American public that their sons are going to be taken from them to die in a war which many if not most believe to be a total fucking crock is going to stoke the fires of anti-war activism in the middle class on a level not seen since the late 1960s.  It'll be the last straw in the collapse of Bush and Cheney's war.

BT

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2006, 01:59:48 PM »
If the goal ios equitable distribution of the burden, i see no other way to ensure that other than a draft.

Naturally those who are physically unable to serve in any capacity would be eligible for discharge .

If all other manpower conditions are met and equitable distribution is not that big a deal then we probably don't need a draft.

And support for any war is guaged by the only poll that matters and that is the one at the ballot box.




Plane

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2006, 02:02:24 PM »
Is the present enemy so strong that we cannot win against it with an all volenteer force?

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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2006, 02:05:46 PM »
Quote
Is the present enemy so strong that we cannot win against it with an all volenteer force?

I think it is.

But the talking point was inequitable distribution of burden, and i know of no viable solution other than reinstituting the draft.


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Re: Even the Neo-cons know Bush is imcompetent now.
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2006, 02:11:08 PM »
Is the present enemy so strong that we cannot win against it with an all volenteer force?

It isnt that they are so strong , but that they are so right to defend their own country against foreign invaders .Especially stupid , intransigent ones like Cheney. He who once knew Iraq would be a quagmire, but caught the Bushidiot's stupidity somewhere along the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGIe1gPaTXY&mode=related&search=