Author Topic: Out Damn Blot  (Read 26871 times)

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_JS

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Re: Out Damn Blot
« Reply #135 on: August 28, 2008, 01:34:24 PM »
Define means of production.

If you (and clearly others) do not care, then explain to me why I should bother?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

_JS

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Re: Out Damn Blot
« Reply #136 on: August 28, 2008, 01:46:30 PM »
The means of production are the instruments and resources used to produce a good or service through productive labor.

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Out Damn Blot
« Reply #137 on: August 28, 2008, 01:48:22 PM »
According to MIA: Encyclopedia of Marxism: Glossary of Terms
Quote
Means of Production

The tools (instruments) and the raw material (subject) you use to create something are the means of production.

If we examine the whole process from the point of view of its result, the product, it is plain that both the instruments and the subject of labour, are means of production, and that the labour itself is productive labour.

Karl Marx

http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/m/e.htm

Seems my description of woodworking fits this definition nicely.


Is your definition different?


_JS

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Re: Out Damn Blot
« Reply #138 on: August 28, 2008, 02:01:02 PM »
No.

And? Are you selecting bits and pieces now?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Out Damn Blot
« Reply #139 on: August 28, 2008, 03:10:17 PM »
Quote
And? Are you selecting bits and pieces now?

No. apparently i was applying your definition to my world.

Plane

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Re: Out Damn Blot
« Reply #140 on: August 28, 2008, 06:05:33 PM »
And Bt...your point is what? That you are bourgeoisie? Is that somehow surprising?

Either I am dense (completely possible) or you two have yet to make a clear point. Class is determined by one's relationship to the means of production and the surplus labor of others.

So yes, Steve Jobs is a member of the bourgeoisie. The person running a company of plumbers is too. The person managing a Wal-Mart is as well. You two seem to be really hung up on the literal tools. No, owning a trowel does not determine your class, nor does owning your own machine shop.



Finally !

By this rather strange and narrow definition ,there is no class distinction in the United States. People who are born to wealth can easily determine what their relationship will be to productive capacity , but persons without wealth can earn any relationship they want as well , luck is heavyly involved , but not as much as talent.

Oh dear lord  ::)

I don't really believe you're that thick Plane. But the act gets tiresome after a while.


What sort of problem is class then, if we do have them, we certainly have a lot of people crossing between them.