Author Topic: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender  (Read 2576 times)

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Kramer

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Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« on: September 01, 2008, 08:37:16 PM »
If Obama had his way on the surge:
1. We would have lost HUNDREDS more soldiers
2. We would have lost the war
3. We would have had to return
Obama has shown reckless judgement and should not be POTUS under any circumstance.



http://iht.com/articles/2008/09/01/mideast/iraq.php

U.S. hands back security of Anbar Province
By Dexter Filkins
Monday, September 1, 2008

RAMADI, Iraq: Two years ago, Anbar Province was the most lethal place for American forces in Iraq. A U.S. marine or soldier died in the province nearly every day, and the provincial capital, Ramadi, was a moonscape of rubble and ruins. Islamic extremists controlled large pieces of territory, with some so ferocious in their views that they did not even allow the baking of bread.

On Monday, U.S. commanders formally returned responsibility for keeping order in Anbar Province, once the heartland of the Sunni insurgency, to the Iraqi Army and police. The ceremony, including a parade on a freshly paved street, capped one of the most significant turnabouts in the country since the war began five and a half years ago.

Over the past two years, the number of insurgent attacks against Iraqis and Americans has dropped by more than 90 percent. Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia has been severely degraded, if not crushed altogether, in large part because many local Sunnis, including former insurgents, have taken up arms against it.

Since February, as the security situation improved, U.S. commanders have cut the number of marines and soldiers operating in the province by 40 percent.

The transfer of authority codified a situation that Iraqi and American officers say has been in effect since April: The Iraqi Army and police operate independently and retain primary responsibility for battling the insurgency and crime in Anbar. The United States, which had long done the bulk of the fighting, has stepped into a backup role, going into the streets only when accompanied by Iraqi forces.

But the dynamic that has brought such calm to Anbar, welcome as it is, seems fragile. Many former insurgents now man the local police forces, or remain on the U.S. payroll as loosely supervised gunmen working for the so-called Sunni Awakening Councils.

But with most of the Sunni population having abstained from voting in 2005, many are now claiming that the present arrangement leaves them unrepresented. Local Sunni leaders have warned that provincial elections must go forward if violence is to be averted.

Still, as the parade marched along Ramadi's Main Street on Monday, the signs were mostly good. The ceremony was a primarily Iraqi affair, with the U.S. marines wearing neither helmets nor body armor, nor carrying guns. The festive scene became an occasion for celebration by Iraqis and Americans, who at several moments wondered aloud in the sweltering heat how things had gone from so grim to so much better, so fast.

"Not in our wildest dreams could we have imagined this," said Mowaffak al-Rubaie, the Iraqi national security adviser, who flew in from Baghdad. "Two or three years ago, had we suggested that the Iraqis could take responsibility, we would have been ridiculed, we would have been laughed at. This was the cradle of the Sunni insurgency."

Indeed it was. Anbar Province became the most intractable region after the toppling of Saddam Hussein in April 2003. More than 1,000 American marines and soldiers have died in the province, a quarter of the total U.S. toll.

Anbar's second city, Falluja, was the scene of the biggest battle of the war, in which nearly 100 Americans died and more than 500 were wounded.

Bordering on three countries, Anbar was also considered the primary transit point for foreigners entering Iraq.

The fighting devastated much of Anbar. Falluja, a city of 250,000, was razed, and large parts of Ramadi, a city of 500,000, were reduced to ruins.

By the summer of 2006, insurgents had tried to kill Anbar's governor, Mamoon Sami al-Rashid, 29 times. They failed with Rashid, but that was an exception. Rashid's immediate predecessor, Raja Nawaf, was kidnapped and murdered. His deputy, Talib al-Dulaimi, was shot and killed. The chairman of the Anbar provincial council was also murdered. Rashid's personal secretary was beheaded and most of his ministers went into hiding.

What finally broke the stalemate, according to former insurgents and local leaders, was a local revolt against Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the radical insurgent group believed to be led primarily by foreigners. As the group began to expand its goals beyond killing Americans to include sectarian assassinations and imposing a fundamentalist Islam, local tribal leaders struck back and reached out for help to U.S. forces. The "Sunni Awakening" was born, and it soon spread across the Sunni areas of Iraq.

Saadi al-Faraji used to be a gunman for a local group called the Islamic Movement of Holy Warriors, which focused mainly on attacking Americans. Then, in 2006, Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia tried to take over his group and force them to kill Iraqis who worked for the government, including police officers.

"Qaeda declared that we were apostates, and they demanded our heads, because we would not kill Iraqi soldiers or Iraqi police," Faraji said.

The Islamic Movement of Holy Warriors began attacking Qaeda fighters at about the same time that a local Sunni sheik named Abdul Sattar abu Risha struck a deal with the Americans and formed the first Awakening Council. The Islamic Movement formed its own Awakening Council, and today, Faraji is a colonel in the Iraqi police.

As for his view on Americans, Faraji said they had evolved.

"They made mistakes, and so did we," he said. "The past is past."

Kramer

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2008, 08:49:30 PM »

Michael Tee

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2008, 09:06:23 PM »
This kinda reminds me of the "success" of "Vietnamization" in Viet Nam.  As the Americans prepared to bug out, they turned over "security" to the "South Vietnamese Army" with great fanfare and the VC obligingly lay low and did nothing to disrupt the handover ceremonies.  Finally, the light at the end of the tunnel.  Then the Americans left and everything was fine for about a year and then all hell broke loose again and the puppet rulers left behind by the Americans were driven out of the country.

The problem with all these idiotic schemes of conquest is that the "enemy" are the people of the invaded country, who have no place to go.  When the Americans leave, as they ultimately must, the "enemy" remains behind and the people rise up and take back their country.

I'll give 'em a couple of years.  The bad part of it is, all through those couple of years we, the people who understand what is really going on, have to listen to the braying of the jackasses who think they have finally found a way to repeal the lessons of history.

Kramer

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2008, 09:14:45 PM »
This kinda reminds me of the "success" of "Vietnamization" in Viet Nam.  As the Americans prepared to bug out, they turned over "security" to the "South Vietnamese Army" with great fanfare and the VC obligingly lay low and did nothing to disrupt the handover ceremonies.  Finally, the light at the end of the tunnel.  Then the Americans left and everything was fine for about a year and then all hell broke loose again and the puppet rulers left behind by the Americans were driven out of the country.

The problem with all these idiotic schemes of conquest is that the "enemy" are the people of the invaded country, who have no place to go.  When the Americans leave, as they ultimately must, the "enemy" remains behind and the people rise up and take back their country.

I'll give 'em a couple of years.  The bad part of it is, all through those couple of years we, the people who understand what is really going on, have to listen to the braying of the jackasses who think they have finally found a way to repeal the lessons of history.

If Obama wins the election you probably have a point, and the terrorists understand that, but if McCain wins we have 16 years to make it work.

Michael Tee

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2008, 09:57:43 PM »
<<If Obama wins the election you probably have a point, and the terrorists understand that, but if McCain wins we have 16 years to make it work.>>

I hope you guys understand that al Qaeda (and al Qaeda in Iraq) really want McCain to win; the Iraqi Resistance and Maliki both would probably prefer McCain to Obama but really don't give a shit either way.

Kramer

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2008, 10:01:53 PM »
<<If Obama wins the election you probably have a point, and the terrorists understand that, but if McCain wins we have 16 years to make it work.>>

I hope you guys understand that al Qaeda (and al Qaeda in Iraq) really want McCain to win; the Iraqi Resistance and Maliki both would probably prefer McCain to Obama but really don't give a shit either way.

How do you know --- are you on the monthly terrorist newsletter mailing list?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2008, 11:18:37 PM »
i wonder if these IslamoNazis want MAC elected too?
yeah maybe since they get their 17 virgins early!


US hits al Qaeda safe house in North Waziristan

By Bill Roggio
August 31, 2008 11:25 PM

The US has targeted an al Qaeda safe house inside Pakistan's tribal areas for the second day in a row. A missile strike hit a home near the town of Miramshah in the Taliban-controlled tribal agency of North Waziristan.

Six people were reported killed in the attack. A woman, a child, and several unidentified "foreigners" were among those killed in the attack. Eight were reported wounded.

The North Waziristan strike is the ninth confirmed cross-border strike by the US against al Qaeda and Taliban safe houses in the tribal areas this year, and the third such attack since Aug. 20. Only ten such strikes were recorded in 2006 and 2007 combined.

Four safe houses have been hit in North Waziristan, three have been hit in South Waziristan, and two have been targeted in Bajaur.

Yesterday the US hit an al Qaeda safe house outside of Wana in South Waziristan. Five were reported killed, including two Arab Canadians.

Three senior al Qaeda operatives have been killed in this year's strikes.

Abu Khabab al Masri, al Qaeda's bomb expert and WMD chief, was killed South Waziristan on July 28. Abu Sulayman Jazairi, al Qaeda's external operations chief, was killed in Bajaur on May 14. Abu Laith al Libi, a senior commander in Afghanistan and the leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, was killed in North Waziristan on January 28.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/08/us_hits_al_qaeda_saf.php


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2008, 11:26:37 PM »
<<How do you know --- are you on the monthly terrorist newsletter mailing list?>>

I figured it out.  They think McCain's gonna stay the course and Obama's gonna pull out.  I'm not sure they're correct about Obama, but he's got less invested in this than McCain, and I think he's more likely than McCain is to pull the plug on the whole thing, but frankly, I don't see either of 'em doing that.  I am really disappointed in Obama for precisely that reason.  But I still hold out a faint hope that he's just talking Nazi talk to stay in the game and he doesn't really mean it.

But from the al Qaeda POV, the war is a bonanza.  They can kill Americans and go to Heaven all in the comfort of their own back yard, instead of having to travel to America to do it.  The Americans are the greatest recruiting tool and a continuing source of destabilization for the regional puppet American governments, who appear more and more incompetent and corrupt the longer the occupation goes on.  I'm sure that as we are speaking, there are junior officer movements very similar to the Iraq of the 1950s building up in Jordan and Egypt (Syria too) which aim to replace existing governments with far more radical ones.  The main stimulus to their growth is, as with the original al Qaeda, American occupation of Muslim lands and/or American subversion of Arab regimes.  The War Party is their preferred American party, since it generates the conflict of war, and they thrive on war and conflict, which they used to grow from nothing.

Plane

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2008, 11:30:56 PM »
<<How do you know --- are you on the monthly terrorist newsletter mailing list?>>

I figured it out.  They think McCain's gonna stay the course and Obama's gonna pull out.  I'm not sure they're correct about Obama, but he's got less invested in this than McCain, and I think he's more likely than McCain is to pull the plug on the whole thing, but frankly, I don't see either of 'em doing that.  I am really disappointed in Obama for precisely that reason.  But I still hold out a faint hope that he's just talking Nazi talk to stay in the game and he doesn't really mean it.

But from the al Qaeda POV, the war is a bonanza.  They can kill Americans and go to Heaven all in the comfort of their own back yard, instead of having to travel to America to do it.  The Americans are the greatest recruiting tool and a continuing source of destabilization for the regional puppet American governments, who appear more and more incompetent and corrupt the longer the occupation goes on.  I'm sure that as we are speaking, there are junior officer movements very similar to the Iraq of the 1950s building up in Jordan and Egypt (Syria too) which aim to replace existing governments with far more radical ones.  The main stimulus to their growth is, as with the original al Qaeda, American occupation of Muslim lands and/or American subversion of Arab regimes.  The War Party is their preferred American party, since it generates the conflict of war, and they thrive on war and conflict, which they used to grow from nothing.

I see this a fantasy on your part.

Al queda grew a lot and builtthemselves up a lot in the days when they were fighting mainly Americans who were not shooting back.

With the Americans shooting back their effectiveness turns out to be pitifull , I don't have a direct line on Al Quieda morale , but I certainly do not imagine it as you do.

Michael Tee

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2008, 11:50:01 PM »
<<I see this a fantasy on your part.>>

Let's see who really has the fantasy.

<<Al queda grew a lot and builtthemselves up a lot in the days when they were fighting mainly Americans who were not shooting back.>>

So there was a time in Iraq when the Americans were not shooting back, eh?  Interesting, because I wasn't aware of it.  When was this golden era of saintly American troops who never shot back at anyone, and how did I manage to miss it? 

<<With the Americans shooting back their effectiveness turns out to be pitifull >>

And you know this how?

<< I don't have a direct line on Al Quieda morale>>

That CAN be a problem, can't it?  But imagine the problems if you DID have a direct line to them.  Mr. plane, we'd just like to ask you a few questions.  Bring your toothbrush.  And lots of bandages and Percocets.

<< but I certainly do not imagine it as you do.>>

That's OK, my imagination can whip your imagination any time."

Plane

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2008, 12:19:50 AM »
<<I see this a fantasy on your part.>>

Let's see who really has the fantasy.

<<Al queda grew a lot and builtthemselves up a lot in the days when they were fighting mainly Americans who were not shooting back.>>

So there was a time in Iraq when the Americans were not shooting back, eh?  Interesting, because I wasn't aware of it.  When was this golden era of saintly American troops who never shot back at anyone, and how did I manage to miss it? 

<<With the Americans shooting back their effectiveness turns out to be pitifull >>

And you know this how?

<< I don't have a direct line on Al Quieda morale>>

That CAN be a problem, can't it?  But imagine the problems if you DID have a direct line to them.  Mr. plane, we'd just like to ask you a few questions.  Bring your toothbrush.  And lots of bandages and Percocets.

<< but I certainly do not imagine it as you do.>>

That's OK, my imagination can whip your imagination any time."

Ya but my humility stomps your humility into the dust.

Al Queda shot up and bombed Embassy's , tourists , troops in barracks , aircraft flying round the Phillipines , many things during the Clinton administration , it grew like Mushrooms .

Then in Afghanistan and then again in Iraq Al queda got a chance to fight Americans who were actually fighting back, they were as effective as ,... hmm falling leaves? Melting snow in the Sahara..., slugs in a salt mine... , spitting upwind in a hurricane?

Man ,..my imagination really  isn't up to expressing their ineffectiveness in an adequate metaphor.


Michael Tee

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2008, 01:43:54 AM »
<<Man ,..my imagination really  isn't up to expressing their ineffectiveness in an adequate metaphor.>>

Part of the problem may be that you're trying to imagine the impossible.  Imagine the sound of one hand clapping.

What you're telling me about Afghanistan isn't even true as we speak, Iraq is just the lull before the storm.

Plane

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2008, 06:27:28 AM »
<<Man ,..my imagination really  isn't up to expressing their ineffectiveness in an adequate metaphor.>>

Part of the problem may be that you're trying to imagine the impossible.  Imagine the sound of one hand clapping.

What you're telling me about Afghanistan isn't even true as we speak, Iraq is just the lull before the storm.


You are right, you do have a very powerfull imagination.

Michael Tee

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Re: Kramer Declares V-Day In Iraq, Thank God We Did Not Surrender
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2008, 09:23:31 AM »
<<You are right, you do have a very powerfull imagination.>>


"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
                              - Albert Einstein