Uh ohh....don't look now

[Xavier_Onassis]

Or do you disagree that Cynthia has taken the entire NCLB debate as a personal attack on her own performance in her profession?


It has never seemed to me that Cindy has done more than discuss how NCLB has worked based on her own experience.
And, no, I don't think she is too close to the subject. I think the others who attack her are not close enough.

[sirs]

Distinct different in "attacking" one's POV/position vs personal, snarking demeaning insultive attacks, many posters here are famous for, and apparently have no control over themselves in doing so

[BT]

So pointing out that most of the original problems blamed on NCLB seem to originate at the state or district level is not being close enough to the issue?

NM previously tested in February. That was one of Cynthia's major complaints. A little digging showed that the state set the date. And the state apparently has just recently changed it.

Another was that NCLB required teaching to the test. Yet nowhere in the law was that stated. Then we find out that incompetent principals were urging teachers to do that, for fear of career repercussions if they didn't try to rig the outcome.

Then we are told that poorly performing schools are penalized. But the truth is more funding is funneled into these same schools (keeping in mind that additional funding is the answer to all our problems, so in a sense poorly performing schools are being rewarded) in an effort to help jump start results.

[Michael Tee]

"Deserve" is a concept that I equate with rewards or punishments.  A student "deserves"  an "A" if he or she answered a certain number of questions correctly, or an "F" if he or she had a certain number of wrong answers or no answers.  A criminal "deserves" 10 years of jail if the judge is of the opinon that his or her conduct reached a certain level of heinousness.

Theoretically, an elected office isn't a reward to give to the guy who is best suited for the job, it's simply recognition of that fact.  He or she is asking to be trusted, to be allowed to serve - - not asking for a prize or a gold medal.  I suppose the honour of being chosen is itself a reward, so really he or she who most "deserves" the honour would be he or she who, in the voters' opinion, is best qualified for the job.

In this particular election, I don't feel either of the candidates, based on personal merit, "deserves" the honour.  Barak, who I'm quited disappointed in, is not a street fighter, not willing to get down and dirty with the racist, fascist, militarist and imperialist interests vying with him for the leadership of the country.  McCain, OTOH, is a moral leper - - a man with the blood of innocent women and children on his hands, people who were roasted to death in jellied napalm and white phosphorus; that's his biggest crime, but I also think of his betrayal of his wife, the mother of his own daughter, his multiple lies, his betrayal of his country in captivity, his lies about being tortured (which his own jailer has denied) and his criminal associate, Charles Keating. 

But since the election isn't about "rewarding" or "punishing" a candidate, but simply selecting the best available for the job, I say it's a no-brainer and Obama is that man - - he's younger, smarter, more innovative, his academic record is simply outstanding (and McCain's correspondingly abysmal) and he promises genuine change, all the more believable since he's devised methods of fund-raising which make him much more independent than McCain and his corps of heavy-hitting Big Lobbyists from the Big Money and their representatives.

[Cynthia]

Or do you disagree that Cynthia has taken the entire NCLB debate as a personal attack on her own performance in her profession?


It has never seemed to me that Cindy has done more than discuss how NCLB has worked based on her own experience.
And, no, I don't think she is too close to the subject. I think the others who attack her are not close enough.

Thank you, XO.

BT has no idea about many arenas ...let alone the arena that is education...and honestly, most folks do not. They just do not seem to care to hear reality. Children bleed. Children hurt. Children are hungry and I have had three boys who have lost their fathers to murder in two years. That's the extreme side of the issue of "reality" of the essence that is educating the child. > >But, this board tends to side with the bottom line....the political side. BT, Sirs tend to stand against anyone who argues against them. I am sad to hear that BT isn't open minded. But, Sirs is just plain closed minded.

Oh well. status quo...

But, aferall, I do not expect them to  listen to what others have to offer when it comes to supporting the education system PS sytem's overall "point of view".

Sad to say...they will never do so..and Happy to say, I will never believe them to be right. So, it goes.

As far as I am concerned, their views do nothing for the debate when it comes to what  is critical to the classroom.

I thank you for your support, XO on this one. I damn well know what is happening in our classrooms...and it has never been easy. NCLB is a good intent, but the essence of the punitive restrictive acts within the act have turned away too many...thus leaving many behind. Things will heal..and the issue will change for the better over time. The board members who are stuck in the ego element of it all will never really understand, so I give them no water to carry in their pot-overhead. Their talk is filled with holes. This is evident.
Your support is appreciated.

C*

[sirs]

Speaking of ..... ahem......closed minded, on certain topics     

[Cynthia]

Speaking of ..... ahem......closed minded, on certain topics     

Sirs, you have never been open minded on this issue....you are the last one I would debate this issue with.

 

[BT]

BT has no idea about many arenas ...let alone the arena that is education...and honestly, most folks do not.

I however do know how to read, and when I read your charges against NCLB, and then compared that to the actual wording of the law, and upon further digging discover that most of your grievances against the act are implemented at the state or district level, I see no reason to not share those discoveries with the class. And it hasn't just been me. Ami has called into question many of your claims.

You know the second favorite reason people give for coming here ( the first i suspect is irritating the opposite ideology) is that they want to learn. So this forum can educate. And you don't have a monopoly on that activity.

[Cynthia]

BT has no idea about many arenas ...let alone the arena that is education...and honestly, most folks do not.

I however do know how to read, and when I read your charges against NCLB, and then compares that to the actual wording of the law, and upon further digging discover that most of your grievances against the act are implemented at the state or district level, I see no reason to not share those discoveries with the class. And it hasn't just been me. Ami has called into question many of your claims.

You know the second favorite reason people give for coming here ( the first i suspect is irritating the opposite ideology) is that they want to learn. So this forum can educate. And you don't have a monopoly on that activity.

Bottom line, BT...you are not a teacher...So this discussion ends and you have no facts to share ....no water to hold.

I am spent with you and Sirs.

BUt, I'll be back to discuss the issue someday.

My god, man, when did you decide that you** are the answer to everything? Maybe I was wrong about the fair and balanced approach you take on here. You are the leader, but your preference on issues leans in only one direction===yours.
as it should be.

So , we need a fair and balanced Suisse mediator to run this board...

[BT]

My moderation of this board has little to do with your inability to provide counter arguments of substance to any of the evidence that contradicts your charges against NCLB.

Please tell me what the murder of three of your students fathers has to do with your false charges against NCLB. Far as i know NCLB has nothing to do with criminal acts.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Please tell me what the murder of three of your students fathers has to do with your false charges against NCLB. Far as i know NCLB has nothing to do with criminal acts.
======================================

I think that three orphaned children in one class would have the potential to bring down the class average when compared with a class in which none of the student's fathers were murdered.

Do you think it is as easy to teach a little boy whose father was murdered as one whose father is still at home, offering him words of encouragement?

Don't you think that sch a child might have greater difficulty concentrating on his lessons and tests?

[BT]

Then again the murder of the parent might stabilize the home environment, especially if the deceased parent was abusive.

 

[Amianthus]

I think that three orphaned children in one class would have the potential to bring down the class average when compared with a class in which none of the student's fathers were murdered.

Good thing that NCLB only requires testing of 95% of each grade level, then...

[Xavier_Onassis]

Good thing that NCLB only requires testing of 95% of each grade level, then...


If the class had 30 students, and three were discounted, that would be 90%, would it not?

[Cynthia]

People in this forum have actually argued that Sarah Palin, with her BA in Journalism from the U of Idaho is intellectually superior to Barak Obama, who has an advanced degree from Harvard and has taught constitutional law.

Who has argued that?

You know far more about NCLB than anyone else here, because you have personal experience with it.

Perhaps being too close to a subject can be a disadvantage.

Or do you disagree that Cynthia has taken the entire NCLB debate as a personal attack on her own performance in her profession?

Ok, well ,  I am wrong, you have every right to your opinion. You can be right as rain...but Bill, you do NOT understand what it means to be an educator=thus you do not know what it means to improve  the system. I am a lightweight on this board when it comes to politics, and indeed you are the strong leader on this board. come on....is your way always right? I say no.

But, I do know what is happening in the classroom and what is happening in the school system. The NCLB in all of its intent...good.

But, there are issues that need fixed. THere are issues that have already been tweaked. So be that. Wow, who would have known. I researched into the act recently...that's why I fell that SIRS response to me was so very rude and unwilling to listen to another person on any issue. I am convinced he is in this for his ego..as someone stated recently. Oh well, such is the board.

That's all I will say....You might disagree, but why? Do you know my life? Do you know my own situation? No.

But, you also have a bone to pick with me...so I will never trust that you will give me respect on this issue....and you can argue that all damn day...I know you have no intent to support me.

But, (and you won't admit this point) but you would support me if I had your best interest at heart...if what I had to say supported what you believe to be RIGHT.

Thus the topic is closed. Closed by I will be right in the end. You will never know why..and you won't care. Sad, but this is the element that is the DEBATEGATE board.

I am not a politician...I would never think of telling you that you are wrong in your field...yet, you and sirs are so quick to put the educator in her/his place. Sad.

Public education needs help. McCain will help. I am confident of that, now.
But, the act itself had issues. No one on this board was willing to admit that. God, that's sickening. It was never about black or white issue of the act. It was always about what needed to be altered for the betterment of the child, in the end. That has happened, and no one here 'a)knows...or b)gives real damn.
Obama is too socialist for me.
But, education is not about that. Not about the silliness that is politics, in the end.

I do believe that we must continue to be trusting of those who know what it's like to work in a school situation where the choices are fewer and fewer between than 10 years ago.

I am not here to blame Bush anymore.

So, does that matter toyou? I doubt it...so I refuse to listen to you on this topic.

Once a supporter of education and it's teachers....alwasy a supporter of such qualified teachers...

That is what I am. I am not your status quo bad teacher...nor are MANY in the system.
But you all stand on your platform and rant against..instead of for....ahhh so quick to reject.

Shame on you. . the children in this country do not deserve such a negative slant. You are ignorant. Sorry but you are.