Author Topic: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!  (Read 2180 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« on: September 26, 2008, 06:03:58 PM »


US Mint suspends sale of 24-karat gold coins 
 
Sep 26 02:57 PM US/Eastern
By MARTIN CRUTSINGER
AP Economics Writer 7 Comments         
 
 
WASHINGTON (AP) - The U.S. Mint is temporarily halting sales of its popular American Buffalo 24-karat gold coins because it can't keep up with soaring demand as investors seek the safety of gold amid economic turbulence.

Mint spokesman Michael White said Friday that the sales were being suspended because demand for the coins, which were first introduced in 2006, has exceeded supply and the Mint's inventory of the coins has been depleted.

The Mint had to temporarily suspend sales of its American Eagle one-ounce gold coins on Aug. 15 and then later that month announced sales of the American Eagle coins would resume under an allocation program to designated dealers.

White said the Mint expected to soon start distributing available Buffalo gold coins through a similar allocation program.

Through Thursday, the day the Mint suspended sales of the American Buffalo, the Mint had sold 164,000 of the coins this year, up 54 percent from the same period a year ago.

"People are scared. Gold has become a safe haven," said Michael Maroney, a vice president of sales at gold dealer Monex Precious Metals in Newport Beach, Calif.

Maroney said that demand for the one-ounce American Eagle coins was "through the roof." He said Monex still had American Buffalos available Friday because the company had recently stocked up on them.

With the financial crisis gripping markets in recent weeks, investors have rushed to safe havens such as gold and Treasury securities. Demand for three-month Treasury bills last week pushed their yields down sharply to levels not seen in decades.

Investment advisers, however, caution that the volatility often seen in gold prices could make investments in this area more of a risky decision if gold prices suddenly begin to fall sharply.

As the financial crisis unfolded in the past few weeks, American Gold Exchange Inc. saw demand for coins go up about 50 percent, according to Bill Musgrave, a vice president of the Austin, Texas-based gold dealer.

The Mint introduced the American Buffalo gold coin, the country's first 24-karat gold coin, in 2006. Congress authorized production of the coin in an effort to capture a portion of the global market for pure gold coins, competing with such coins as the Canadian Maple Leaf.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93EJ2U00&show_article=1
 
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

richpo64

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 06:14:19 PM »
Barry doesn't seem to be worried about it. He says McCain should debate him rather than try and avoid a disasterous blow to the American economy.

Barry's priority is Barry.

McCain's in Country First.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 06:15:15 PM »
The price of gold is unrelated to whether there is a depression or not.

Whether or not the US mint makes gold buffalo coins is unrelated to the ability of people to buy gold.

Just at this precise moment, gold seems to be more stable than any other form of money to people who react to fear.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Brassmask

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 08:19:51 PM »
Barry doesn't seem to be worried about it. He says McCain should debate him rather than try and avoid a disasterous blow to the American economy.

Barry's priority is Barry.

McCain's in Country First.

Funny, you're saying that when Roy Blunt told everyone on national television today that McCain actually kept the deal from happening.

Brassmask

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 08:40:26 PM »
What's also so very retarded about your comment is how you are trying to say that things are soooooo dire that McCain needs to be in DC saying nothing for 40 minutes in the one meeting with all the principals then not uttering once stance on one issue and never letting anyone know if he was even FOR THE FUCKING BILL.

Also, if things were ssoooooo Fucking dire, why is it when he cancelled his appearance on Letterman by saying he was hopping on a plane but then went to CBS in full makeup and did a bit with Katie Couric then didn't get to DC till The Next Fucking Day AFTER he gave a big speech at Clinton's Global Initiative?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

I know for you it is all about what kind of a whopper bullshit sandwich you can whip out in front of those of us who actually do care about the issues and challenges that face America and humanity but really, it is such an old schtick and you're just a pathetic has-been clawing at any chance to tear down reality so you can return to the good old days of living in the La-la Land Bush created for you to think you were living in.

Well, reality rules again so you right wing extremists who use tactics and strategies just to maintain power can crawl back into the hole you were in prior to 9.11 giving you an opportunity to scare the shit of the masses and allowing you to spread ignorance, stupidity and lies at will.

For the last few months, America has been waking up after having been slipped your roofie cocktail and now you're just the pathetic date rapist that hangs around in the morning trying to make the victim believe they were into it just as much as you were and you really meant all the things you said to gain the victim's trust and get them to drink that cocktail.

BT

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 08:47:46 PM »
Quote
know for you it is all about what kind of a whopper bullshit sandwich you can whip out in front of those of us who actually do care about the issues[/quote]

Caring is not enough. Understanding what the issues are and what the ramifications of your sound bite solutions are. is what is really important.

It was enlightening watching you and Mikey railing about the bailout for days on end and i doubt you even now understand what it is all about.

But here is a clue. It isn't about the guy down the street who has a 30 year fixed mortgage and has fallen behind because he was out of work for a couple months.






richpo64

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 09:15:28 PM »
Funny, you're saying that when Roy Blunt told everyone on national television today that McCain actually kept the deal from happening.<<

And your point is?

McCain thinks it's bad deal. He's doing what he thinks is best for his country. Barry doesn't give a dman one way or the other.

Michael Tee

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 09:16:20 PM »
Barry doesn't seem to be worried about it. He says McCain should debate him rather than try and avoid a disasterous blow to the American economy.

Barry's priority is Barry.

McCain's in Country First.

=================================================================

Obama, commenting on McCain's and the Republicans' support for offshore operations and the exporting of American jobs:  "I know McCain always says, 'Country First.'  My question is , which country?"

McCain isn't trying to "avoid a disastrous blow to the American economy."  By all accounts, McCain has absolutely nothing to contribute to the negotiations (probably because he's a fucking moron) and may be responsible for any reasonable deal going off the rails.

OTOH to be fair to the old war criminal, I don't know that there ever was a reasonable deal cooking up anyway.  Either way:  if a decent deal was being cooked up, McCain has fucked it, and if there wasn't, he sure as hell did nothing to create one.

It is apparent to almost everyone today that McCain's act is nothing but desperate grandstanding, a phony act of "saving the economy," which no one believes - - the day of the crash, the fucking moron was telling everyone the fundamentals of the economy are strong - - and moreover which almost everyone understands as the senile chickenshit's attempt to avoid a debate in which he is going to be slaughtered.

richpo64

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 09:17:44 PM »
I don't know Brass. I think you protest a bit to much. You're getting all worked up into a lather because?

No need to answer. I know why.

You retard.

 :D

richpo64

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2008, 09:21:36 PM »
Which accounts are those Mike? Could you share? As for the deal, do you have some information on what was so good about it? Care to share that also? And, who is "almost everyone" Mike? Do you have poll or something? Care to name names? Sources?

Good grief.

Michael Tee

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2008, 09:52:15 PM »
Relax, Rich, it's only my impression.  I took a quick scan of the hufpo site, read the first section of today's WSJ and on the basis of those two sources and the fact that both sources quoted bi-partisan condemnation of McCain, made the comments I did.  Hasty, no doubt, but probably accurate.  McCain has been so erratic and confused lately that it's hard enough to keep track of what he is actually doing, let alone of the comments on his actions.  I don't know about you, but I had the sensation of a campaign in free-fall, interrupted by one desperate but possibly inspired Hail Mary pass which if it paid off might have turned the thing around, but now looks like it will fail from any aspect and regardless of whether or not a bail-out deal is reached.

This seems to be devolving into a battle of errors.  I felt that McCain had made a daring end run around Obama, credit for which had to be assigned equally to McCain's gutter-fighting instincts (which I admit the leader of a great power must have) and Obama's surprising (to me!) ineptitude, but lo and behold at the end of this day, I now feel that Obama, by doing virtually nothing, will come out ahead simply because McCain was unable to capitalize on his initially brilliant manoeuvre.  This is an indictment of McCain's failure at long-term planning.

It's a very exciting and original campaign.  I'm starting to understand why my cousin in Detroit prefers college football to AFL action.  I'm reasonably certain that if McCain shows up tonight, Obama will slaughter him, but if you'd asked me a week ago, I would have bet money on it.  Now, the bets are off.

I'll tell ya one thing, this campaign is ten thousand times more interesting than any Canadian election campaign could ever be.  You could die of boredom following Canadian elections.  There is no doubt at all the U.S.A. is the most entertaining country in the world.   Watching you guys is like watching an ant farm with all the ants on crystal meth and about a third of them in the advanced stages of delusional psychosis.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2008, 08:54:59 PM »


Huge European bank fails

Sept 28, 2008
Associated Press, by Staff


BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- Dutch-Belgian bank and insurance giant Fortis NV was given a 11.2 billion euro ($16.4 billion) lifeline to avert insolvency as part of a wider bailout plan agreed to by Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, officials said Sunday.

Belgium's Prime Minister Yves Leterme said the bailout shows account holders and investors that Fortis will not be allowed to fall victim to the global credit crisis.

Leterme announced the deal after weekend talks between the three countries, European Union and national banking officials.

The deal will force the bank -- which has headquarters in both Brussels and the Dutch city of Utrecht -- to sell its stake in Dutch bank ABN Amro, which it partially took over last year. Fortis paid 24 billion euros for its share of ABN.

Fortis Chairman Maurice Lippens will be forced to resign and will be replaced by a candidate from outside the company, Leterme said.

"We have taken up our responsibility, we did not abandon" account holders, Leterme told reporters.

Under the bailout, Belgium will invest 4.7 billion euros ($6.88 billion) and the Netherlands 4 billion euros ($5.86 billion) in Fortis' banking operations in the two countries. In return, they each receive 49 percent ownership in those national arms of the bank.

Luxembourg will invest 2.7 billion euros ($3.95 billion) in the bank's Luxembourg operations, also for a 49 percent stake.

The deal, orchestrated by the three neighboring countries and EU Central Bank chief Jean-Claude Trichet, is meant to restore confidence in the bank before the reopening of markets on Monday after a tumultuous week in which Fortis' shares imploded.

Belgian officials also announced Sunday that they planned to offer better guarantees for all retail deposits at Fortis, the country's largest bank and largest private employer.

Fortis named its third chief executive officer in as many months Friday after insolvency fears caused the company's shares to tumble to 5.18 euros ($7.56), their lowest level in more than a decade. The shares have lost more than three-fourths of their value in the past year.

Fortis denies any imminent solvency problems, but it has been in trouble since it took part in a three-bank consortium last year that acquired ABN Amro in a 70 billion euros ($102.5 billion) deal that was the largest takeover in the history of the banking industry.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/international/fortis_nationalized.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008092818
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 04:19:56 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2008, 06:43:04 PM »
Billion-Dollar Fund Manager Predicts Dow 5,000,
Gold $2,000


Prudent Bear Funds director advises viewers of Bloomberg TV to move out of equities,
into safer investments.

By Jeff Poor
Business & Media Institute
9/30/2008 3:48:41 PM

The doom and gloom crowd was piling on after a record one-day 777-point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA).

David Tice, who manages the $1.1 billion Prudent Bear Mutual Funds from the Virgin Islands, offered a bleak assessment of the financial future in an interview with Bloomberg TV anchor Carol Massar on Sept. 30.

?Unfortunately Carol, we don?t believe that the pain is over,? Tice said. ?We think that we?re going to have to pay for the excesses of really the last five to 10 years of this excessive credit growth with a dramatic slowdown in the economy, dramatically lower markets. We?re still above 10,000. We think we?re going to, you know, fall below 5- or- 6,000 on the Dow and we think we?re going to have to readjust the U.S. economy towards less consumption ? where we pay for goods with goods.?

Tice has made similar predictions in the past. In 2002, he said the Dow would drop to 3,000, although the 10-year low for the Dow is just below 7,500 ? occurring in late 2002. However, if his prediction were to come true, the Dow Jones Industrial Average would reach depths not seen since the early 1990s. Tice didn?t have a definitive timeline for his market plunge.

?It all depends on ? who the heck knows, Carol, as far as timing ? because there?s so many bailouts, so much ? Bernanke has essentially been known as, you know, possessing the printing press, etc. and, you know, it depends a lot on foreigners as far as how quickly they lose confidence in the dollar and what happens throughout the world as well,? Tice said.

His advice ? flee the equity markets for safety. Tice recommended precious metals ? especially gold, which he said was bound for $2,000 per troy ounce. Gold is currently trading just under $900.

?I think you certainly invest some time in analyzing what?s going on and I think you reduce equity exposure,? Tice said. ?I think you do own gold. I think you own precious metals because this is a time when the bailouts are going to be so expensive. Our currency?s going to be diminished even though gold has been very, very volatile ? down $250 just over a few months. I think it?s going to head to $2,000 eventually and it will protect you. And I do think less equity investments make sense.?

In recent months, traders who engaged in short selling were criticized for being behind some of the bank collapses. The Security and Exchanges Commission banned short-selling of nearly 800 financial stocks on Sept. 19 to prevent short sellers from ?creating chaos in the market,? according to the Sept. 26 Boston Globe. Tice defended short sellers in his interview, explaining that it is a legitimate trading practice.

?Our fund does short the market,? Tice said. ?We?re diversified through a number of industries. It really has not hurt our ability to be able to be short. Short sellers are not really bad people. They?re just trying to take ? utilize well-known investment techniques in order to hedge investors and we do think shorting stocks does make sense.?


http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080930154555.aspx
 

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: ok boys....we just might be entering a depression!
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 02:19:10 PM »


Germany takes hot seat as Europe falls into the abyss

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
06 Oct 2008

We face extreme danger. Unless there is immediate intervention on every front by all the major powers acting in concert, we risk a disintegration of global finance within days. Nobody will be spared, unless they own gold bars.
 
Investors will learn today whether the Paulson bail-out - fattened to $850bn (?480bn) by Congress - can begin to halt the death spiral in the credit system. So far, the response looks terrible.

Germany is now in the hot seat. The collapse of a rescue deal for Hypo Real Estate on Saturday threatens a ?400bn (?311bn) bankruptcy that nearly matches the Lehman Brothers debacle for sheer scale.

Chancellor Angela Merkel has been forced to pull her head out of the sand, guaranteeing all German savings, a day after she rebuked Ireland for doing much the same thing. Reality intrudes.

During the past week, we have tipped over the edge, into the middle of the abyss. Systemic collapse is in full train. The Netherlands has just rushed through a second, more sweeping nationalisation of Fortis. Ireland and Greece have had to rescue all their banks. Iceland is facing an Argentine denouement.

The US commercial paper market is closed. It shrank $95bn last week, and has lost $208bn in three weeks. The interbank lending market has seized up. There are almost no bids. It is a ghost market. Healthy companies cannot roll over debt. Some will have to sack staff today to stave off default.

As the unflappable Warren Buffett puts it, the credit freeze is ?sucking blood? out of the economy. ?In my adult lifetime, I don?t think I?ve ever seen people as fearful,? he said.

We are fast approaching the point of no return. The only way out of this calamitous descent is ?shock and awe? on a global scale, and even that may not be enough.

Drastic rate cuts would be a good start. Central bankers still paralysed by a misplaced fear of inflation ? whether in Europe, Britain, or the US ? have become a public menace and should be held to severe account by our democracies. The imminent and massive danger is now self-feeding debt deflation.

The lesson of the 1930s is that any country trying to reflate in isolation will be punished. The crisis will ricochet from one economy to another until every one is crippled. We are seeing it play again in this drama as our leaders fail to rise above their narrow, parochial agendas.

The European Central Bank ? which raised rates into the teeth of the crisis in July ? has played a shockingly destructive role in this enveloping slump. Its growth predictions this year have been, and still are, delusional. Neglecting its global role, it has vastly complicated the fire-fighting efforts of Washington.

It could have offered ?cover? to the US Federal Reserve this spring when Ben Bernanke was forced by events to slash rates to 2pc. It could at least have signalled an end to monetary tightening. That is how an ally ought to behave.

Instead, it stuck maniacally to its Gothic script, with equally unhappy consequences for both sides of the Atlantic, as well as for China, Japan, and India. The euro rocketed yet further, which it turn set off an oil shock as crude metamorphosed into an anti-dollar with leverage.

The ECB policy was self-defeating, even on its own terms. It merely drove headline inflation even higher, while deeper forces of underlying debt deflation pulled the real economies of Germany, Italy, France, and Spain into a recessionary vortex.

Far from offering reassurance, the weekend mini-summit of EU leaders served only to highlight that nobody is in charge of this runaway train. There is still no lender of last resort in euroland. The ?12bn stimulus package is risible.

Angela Merkel has revealed her deep limitations. It was she who vetoed French efforts to launch a pan-EU rescue package, suspecting that any lifeboat fund would prove to be Trojan Horse ? a way of co-opting German taxpayers into colossal transfers of wealth to Latin Europe.

In that she is right, but it is too late now for dysfunctional EU political games. By demanding that those who caused the damage should pay for it, she crossed the line into caricature, or worse.

Her comments echo word for word the ?we?re alright Jack? attitudes of Euro-pols during the first US banking crises in 1930-1931, until the storm hit Europe and the entire cast was swept away by furious electorates, or simply shot. Thankfully, this EU stupidity is at last drawing serious criticism.

?We have to make sure Europe takes its responsibilities, like the US: action must be taken quickly and in a concerted manner,? said IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

As for the US itself, it has not yet exhausted its policy arsenal. It can escalate further up the nuclear ladder. The Fed can cut interest rates from 2pc to zero. If that fails, it can let rip with the mass purchase of US debt.

?The US government has a technology, called a printing press,? said Fed chief Ben Bernanke in November 2002. (His helicopter speech).

In extremis, the Treasury/Fed can swoop into any market to shore up asset prices. They can buy Florida property. They can even buy SUV guzzlers from the car lots in Detroit, and mangle them in scrap yards. As Bernanke put it, the Fed can ?expand the menu of assets that it buys.?

There is a devilish catch to this ploy, of course. It assumes that foreign creditors will tolerate such action.

Japan entered its Lost Decade as the world?s top creditor, with a vast pool of household savings to cushion the slump. America starts its purge with net external liabilities of $3 trillion, and a savings rate near zero. Foreigners own over half the US Treasury debt, and two thirds of all Fannie, Freddie, and other US agency bonds.

But the risk of a dollar collapse is one for the distant future. Right now the world faces the opposite problem. There is a wild scramble for dollars as a $10 trillion pyramid of global lending based on dollar balance sheets ?delevers? with a vengeance.

This is a ?short squeeze? on those who have used the dollar for a vast global carry trade. International banks are facing margin calls on their dollar leverage. It is why the Fed is having to provide $1.25 trillion in dollar liquidity for the entire global system, according to estimates by Brad Setser from the Center for Geoeconomic Studies.

The crisis engulfing Europe, Asia and emerging markets, makes life easier for Washington. The United States is becoming a safe-haven again.

The Fed can now hope to pursue monetary stimulus ?a l?outrance? without being slapped down by the currency, debt, and commodity markets. Take comfort where you can.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/3141428/Germany-takes-hot-seat-as-Europe-falls-into-the-abyss.html
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987