Author Topic: The Islamofascist War that isn't  (Read 18975 times)

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sirs

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The Islamofascist War that isn't
« on: September 17, 2006, 04:14:16 PM »
The Liberals' War
Why is the left afraid to face up to the threat of radical Islam?

BY BRET STEPHENS
Sunday, September 17, 2006 

"When I was 19, I moved to New York City. . . . If you had asked me to describe myself then, I would have told you I was a musician, an artist and, on a somewhat political level, a woman, a lesbian and a Jew. Being an American wouldn't have made my list. On Sept. 11, all that changed. I realized that I had been taking the freedoms I have here for granted. Now I have an American flag on my backpack, I cheer at the fighter jets as they pass overhead and I am calling myself a patriot."

-- Rachel Newman, "My Turn"
in Newsweek, Oct. 21, 2001


Here's a puzzle: Why is it so frequently the case that the people who have the most at stake in the battle against Islamic extremism and the most to lose when Islamism gains--namely, liberals--are typically the most reluctant to fight it?
It is often said, particularly in the "progressive" precincts of the democratic left, that by aiming at the Pentagon, the World Trade Center and perhaps the Capitol, Mohamed Atta and his cohorts were registering a broader Muslim objection to what those buildings supposedly represented: capitalism and globalization, U.S. military power, support for Israel, oppression of the Palestinians and so on.

But maybe Ms. Newman intuited that Atta's real targets weren't the symbols of American mightiness, but of what that mightiness protected: people like her, bohemian, sexually unorthodox, a minority within a minority. Maybe she understood that those F-16s overhead--likely manned by pilots who went to church on Sunday and voted the straight GOP ticket--were being flown above all for her defense, at the outer cultural perimeter of everything that America's political order permits.

This may be reading too much into Ms. Newman's essay. Yet after 9/11 at least a few old-time voices on the left--Christopher Hitchens, Bruce Bawer, Paul Berman and Ron Rosenbaum, among others--understood that what Islamism most threatened wasn't just America generally, but precisely the values that modern liberalism had done so much to promote and protect for the past 40 years: civil rights, gay rights, feminism, privacy rights, reproductive choice, sexual freedom, the right to worship as one chooses, the right not to worship at all. And so they bid an unsentimental goodbye to their one-time comrades and institutions: the peace movement, the pages of The Nation and the New York Review of Books, "the deluded and pathetic sophistry of postmodernists of the left, who believe their unreadable, jargon-clotted theory somehow helps liberate the wretched of the earth," as Mr. Rosenbaum wrote in the New York Observer in 2002.

Five years on, however, Messrs. Hitchens, Bawer, et al., seem less like trendsetters and more like oddball dissenters from a left-liberal orthodoxy that finds less and less to like about the very idea of a war on Islamic extremism, never mind the war in Iraq. In the September issue of The Atlantic Monthly, James Fallows, formerly Jimmy Carter's speechwriter, argues that the smart thing for the U.S. to do is declare victory and give the conflict a rest: "A state of war with no clear end point," he writes, "makes it more likely for a country to overreact in ways that hurt itself." Further to the left, a panoply of "peace" groups is all but in league with Islamists. Consider, for instance, QUIT!--Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism--a group that, in its hatred for Israel, curiously fails to notice that Tel Aviv is the only city in the Middle East that annually hosts a gay-pride parade.

An instinct for pacifism surely goes some way toward explaining the left's curious unwillingness to sign up for a war to defend its core values. A suspicion of black-and-white moral distinctions of the kind President Bush is fond of making about terrorism--a suspicion that easily slides into moral relativism--is another.

But there are deeper factors at work. One is appeasement: "Many Europeans feel that a confrontation with Islamism will give the Islamists more opportunities to recruit--that confronting evil is counterproductive," says Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-born, former Dutch parliamentarian whose outspoken opposition to Islamism (and to Islam itself) forced her repeatedly into hiding and now into exile in the United States. "They think that by appeasing them--allowing them their own ghettoes, their own Muslim schools--they will win their friendship."

A second factor, she says, is the superficial confluence between the bugaboos of the Chomskyite left and modern-day Islamism. "Many social democrats have this stereotype that the corporate world, the U.S. and Israel are the real evil. And [since] Islamists are also against Israel and America, [social democrats] sense an alliance with them."

But the really "lethal mistake," she says, "is the confusion of Islam, which is a body of ideas, with ethnicity." Liberals especially are reluctant to criticize the content of Islam because they fear that it is tantamount to criticizing Muslims as a group, and is therefore almost a species of racism. Yet Muslims, she says, "are responsible for their ideas. If it is written in the Koran that you must kill apostates, kill the unbelievers, kill gays, then it is legitimate and urgent to say, 'If that is what your God tells you, you have to modify it.' "

A similar rethink may be in order among liberals and progressives. For whatever else distinguishes Islamism from liberalism, both are remarkably self-absorbed affairs, obsessed with maintaining the purity of their own values no matter what the cost. In the former case, the result too often is terror. In the latter, the ultimate risk is suicide, as the endless indulgence of "the other" obstructs the deeper need to preserve itself. Liberal beliefs--and the Rachel Newmans of the world--deserve to be protected and fought for. A liberalism that abandons its own defense to others does not, something liberals everywhere might usefully dwell on during this season of sad remembrance.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=110008951



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

The_Professor

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2007, 04:27:19 PM »
Found this posting of sirs that was neglected by all and found it to be important -- least we forget ---

"...Yet after 9/11 at least a few old-time voices on the left... understood that what Islamism most threatened wasn't just America generally, but precisely the values that modern liberalism had done so much to promote and protect for the past 40 years: civil rights, gay rights, feminism, privacy rights, reproductive choice, sexual freedom, the right to worship as one chooses, the right not to worship at all...An instinct for pacifism surely goes some way toward explaining the left's curious unwillingness to sign up for a war to defend its core values. A suspicion of black-and-white moral distinctions of the kind President Bush is fond of making about terrorism--a suspicion that easily slides into moral relativism--is another.

But there are deeper factors at work. One is appeasement: "Many Europeans feel that a confrontation with Islamism will give the Islamists more opportunities to recruit--that confronting evil is counterproductive," says Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-born, former Dutch parliamentarian whose outspoken opposition to Islamism (and to Islam itself) forced her repeatedly into hiding and now into exile in the United States. "They think that by appeasing them--allowing them their own ghettoes, their own Muslim schools--they will win their friendship."

If true, this appeasement policy bespeaks of cowardice of the lowest sort. Confronting evil is ALWAYS productive.  It is a universal call of those of integrity and true seekers of Truth.

_JS

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2007, 04:58:30 PM »
There is a difference between moral relativism and not accepting the world in manichaean terms.

There is a difference in cowardice and following the teachings of Christ.

There is a world of difference in identifying and working to change the underlying problems that cause people to sympathize with violent terrorism and appeasement.

I remember this post and especially the reprehensible cartoon attached to it. It reminded me very much of a comment made by Hermann Goering (I never remember how to put the umlaut in on American keyboards) when interviewed by Gustave Gilbert, shortly before taking his life while in prison at Nuremberg awaiting trial.

Quote
Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Universe Prince

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2007, 11:31:55 PM »
I have several problems with the argument as Bret Stephens, and others of similar thinking, try to frame it. What I see from my perspective is that basically they try to structure the issue as an either/or, either you support aggressively prosecuting the "war on terror" or you want to make buddies with the Islamic extremeists. As you may have noted, there is no room there for a different perspective on the "war on terror" or not agreeing with either end of the argument, or really for any disagreement at all. Not supporting aggressively prosecuting the "war on terror" equals appeasing the terrorists to make them friendly. As someone who does not agree with aggressively prosecuting the "war on terror" or appeasing the terrorists, I find myself (to put it mildly) a bit annoyed with the argument.

Another problem I have is the notion that the only way for Americans to defend themselves and what they believe is to agree with with the sort of bizarre, black-and-white, us-or-them moralizing that is put forth as justification for the "war on terror". To question it is to be accused of moral relativism and/or not understanding the nature of the enemy. Again, the argument leaves no room for dissent. The people making these arguments keep telling us the "war on terror" is a fight to protect our liberties, yet they seem to want to tell the rest of us what to think.

Which leads me to the part of Mr. Stephens' article that I find most troublesome. He said:

      Liberal beliefs--and the Rachel Newmans of the world--deserve to be protected and fought for. A liberalism that abandons its own defense to others does not, something liberals everywhere might usefully dwell on during this season of sad remembrance.      
If you agree with the militant pursuance of the "war on terror" then you and your beliefs deserve to be protected, but if you do not support that, then apparently you and your beliefs do not deserve protection. I find this disturbing to say the least. Why? Because what I am seeing in Mr. Stephens' words is the foundation for a policy of censorship and belligerent nationalism. That might not bother me so much if I had not also seen people hurling the accusation of treason at the editor of the New York Times last June. Yes, I know, no one was arrested, but I keep seeing people talk as if there was something inherently and morally wrong with not endorsing the either/or argument that people like Mr. Stephens' put forth. Where does all this lead? Do we condemn someone for calling people killed on September 11, 2001, "little Eichmanns" but let it pass when someone suggests that liberals who don't agree with the status of the "war on terror" somehow are not deserving of protection? I can't stand either one, and they seem like two sides of the same coin to me.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 11:34:05 PM »

Confronting evil is ALWAYS productive.  It is a universal call of those of integrity and true seekers of Truth.


And when people of integrity do not agree on what is evil and what is Truth, what then?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Michael Tee

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2007, 11:56:18 PM »
<<Being an American wouldn't have made my list. On Sept. 11, all that changed. I realized that I had been taking the freedoms I have here for granted. Now I have an American flag on my backpack, I cheer at the fighter jets as they pass overhead and I am calling myself a patriot.">>

I would just call her a nut, and an incredibly shallow and stupid one at that. 

Michael Tee

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2007, 12:13:36 AM »
<<But maybe Ms. Newman intuited that Atta's real targets weren't the symbols of American mightiness, but of what that mightiness protected: people like her, bohemian, sexually unorthodox, a minority within a minority. Maybe she understood that those F-16s overhead--likely manned by pilots who went to church on Sunday and voted the straight GOP ticket--were being flown above all for her defense, at the outer cultural perimeter of everything that America's political order permits.>>

It's very hard, in an article like this, to pick out the silliest and most unconsciously hilarious parts, because the whole thing proceeds on pretty much the philosophical depth of Animal House and Jackass combined.  However, the above selection will do nicely.

If anyone can "intuit" the Twin Towers as emblematic of America's hippiedom, drug use, lesbianism and bohemianism, you know it could only be some right-wing fruitcake whose divorce from reality was completed acrimoniously many, many years ago.  The Church-goin, Gawd-fearin' , Republican-votin' F-16 pilots vigilantly defending lesbian Jews, sex, drugs and rock'n'roll were the icing on the cake - - whatever moron wrote the article writes just as if these cowboys wouldn't be just as happy to dump napalm and white phosphorus on unsuspecting Vietnamese villagers or Iraqi slum-dwellers as they are to shoot down anything that moves without proper authorization in the skies over New York.  The confusion of a bloodlust-testosterone cocktail with solicitude for Ms. Newman's "right" to do her own thing was an error that only a dyed-in-the-wool conservative could ever make.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2007, 12:18:27 AM »
<<An instinct for pacifism surely goes some way toward explaining the left's curious unwillingness to sign up for a war to defend its core values. >>

Yeah, when Oil and Zionism were at stake before, those lefties were always the first to the barricades.

sirs

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2007, 12:51:57 AM »
Just wanted to take a moment and thank the Professor for re-addressing this issue, and concur with many of his points, especially as it relates to acknowledging & dealing with actual evil, vs the made up kind Tee believes exists in BushCo and our military   
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2007, 11:23:44 AM »
I take it from sirs' silence that he at least concurs with my points that it was absurd to consider the Twin Towers as symbols of American Jewish  lesbianism and that the F-16 pilots might be more focused on the joys of flyin' fast and firing powerful rockets than they were on ensuring Rachel Newman's  Constitutional right to fuck other women.  At least he knows better now than to argue in defence of the totally moronic.

sirs

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2007, 11:43:52 AM »
Actually you can take from "sirs' silence" the migraine inducing garbage he ususally responds to, from the likes of Tee, and decided to save his excedrin for another time
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2007, 11:58:01 AM »
I see.  Apparently it gives you less of an Excedrin headache to respond to something that isn't in my post than to something that is.  Headaches are strange and wonderful things, and nobody will ever understand them. As are the fictions and fantasies of the right-wingally deluded.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 12:14:46 PM by Michael Tee »

sirs

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 12:38:02 PM »
I see.  Apparently it gives you less of an Excedrin headache to respond to something that isn't in my post than to something that is. 

No, actually it gives me less of migraine when I avoid responding to any of your illogical, and frequently delusional diatribes, you consider "reasoned common sense"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2007, 01:29:39 PM »
Quote
What I see from my perspective is that basically they try to structure the issue as an either/or, either you support aggressively prosecuting the "war on terror" or you want to make buddies with the Islamic extremeists. ""



     If there is actually an orginisation ouside the USA whose stated purpose and ambition is the destruction of the entire USA, I am against it .


       What is the middle ground opinion?

sirs

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Re: The Islamofascist War that isn't
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2007, 01:35:07 PM »
If there is actually an orginisation ouside the USA whose stated purpose and ambition is the destruction of the entire USA, I am against it .  What is the middle ground opinion?

Careful Plane....you can't seriously believe their ambitions are to kill every living American man, woman, & child now.  I mean, that's completely impractical & probably impossible, so the threat really isn't a threat at all.  Right?     ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle