Obama's prime-time ad skips over budget realities

[Michael Tee]

Joe the Plumber isn't what I had in mind.  There has to be some basic level of feasability in the candidate's promises.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that you vote for the guy with the wildest flight of fancy  as long as you like the fancy too.

If I were a lender and Joe appeared before me to ask for a loan to buy out his boss, I wouldn't say no automatically, but I'd look at a few things - - lack of a licence, lack of prior entrepreneurial experience, lack of ever meeting a payroll for any reasonable period of time, inability to clear a miserable little $1,600 lien off his property - - and then I'd ask him, OK, what do you have that would make me want to lend you a million bucks?  Show me a reason.  I don't see any reason.  Joe's chances of getting turned down are as close to 100% as can be reasonably expected.

Doesn't mean no chance at all:  he might find a rich widow he can charm; might win a lottery; but in the normal course of human affairs, Joe, at least for now, is fucked.  He needs to start small, maybe moonlighting, building a small trade and slowly growing it incrementallly, PROVE HIMSELF before there is any reasonable chance of getting the financing to buy out the boss.

The basic difference is seen only by those with basic common sense and basic business sense - - Obama has some reasonable chance of achieving some of his objectives, Joe has little to none.

[BT]

The basic difference is seen only by those with basic common sense and basic business sense

The most probable lender is the guy who hired him all those years ago. Anyone one with basic business sense has heard about owner financing and deferred payments.

Joe doesn't need a license, the note holder (previous owner) can still have his license attached to the business.

[Plane]

Joe the Plumber isn't what I had in mind.  There has to be some basic level of feasability in the candidate's promises.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that you vote for the guy with the wildest flight of fancy  as long as you like the fancy too.

If I were a lender and Joe appeared before me to ask for a loan to buy out his boss, I wouldn't say no automatically, but I'd look at a few things - - lack of a licence, lack of prior entrepreneurial experience, lack of ever meeting a payroll for any reasonable period of time, inability to clear a miserable little $1,600 lien off his property - - and then I'd ask him, OK, what do you have that would make me want to lend you a million bucks?  Show me a reason.  I don't see any reason.  Joe's chances of getting turned down are as close to 100% as can be reasonably expected.

Doesn't mean no chance at all:  he might find a rich widow he can charm; might win a lottery; but in the normal course of human affairs, Joe, at least for now, is fucked.  He needs to start small, maybe moonlighting, building a small trade and slowly growing it incrementallly, PROVE HIMSELF before there is any reasonable chance of getting the financing to buy out the boss.

The basic difference is seen only by those with basic common sense and basic business sense - - Obama has some reasonable chance of achieving some of his objectives, Joe has little to none.

I really don't get your point.

Why does Joe have to be ready already to buy what he wants?

As you point out yourself he would do well to builld up his skill , credential and resorces to make the buy with more chance of getting the loan and of makeing a success . Thousands of guys begin in business every year , why are you calling impossible something that is not even out of the ordinary?

[Michael Tee]

I really don't get your point.

Why does Joe have to be ready already to buy what he wants?
=========================

Other than by expressing the wish to buy out his boss, he hasn't achieved the bare minimum requirements of being an owner - - no money, accumulated unpaid liens, no licence, etc.  It's like the wish to be a movie star or a brain surgeon with no track record or evidence of ability.  And even if he were someday to buy out the boss, who's gonna believe that an extra tax bite of under 3K is gonna stop him from pursuing an income of over 250K?

The whole story is preposterous.

[BT]

The whole story is preposterous.

What is preposterous is the whole weight of the states investigative powers wee unleashed upon this man because he dared to ask THE ONE a pertinent question.

As much as Obama and his supporters wish he were the second coming of JFK, he and they play the game like they are Nixon.

Joe won't go down in history as a plumber, but he very well may go down in history as a charter member of Obama's Enemy List.

Change, my ass.

[sirs]

The whole story is preposterous.

What is preposterous is the whole weight of the states investigative powers wee unleashed upon this man because he dared to aske THE ONE a pertinent question.  As much as Obama and his supporters wish he were the second coming of JFK, he and they play the game like they are Nixon.  Joe won't go down in history as a plumber, but he very well may go down in history as a charter member of Obama's Enemy List.

Change, my ass.

[Michael Tee]

<<What is preposterous is the whole weight of the states investigative powers wee unleashed upon this man because he dared to ask THE ONE a pertinent question.>>

IN the first place, the investigation of Joe the Plumber was not done by the state but by the press, and what they "investigated" were matters of public record:  Joe's lack of a licence and the lien on his property.  And I will not be thrown off-course by your refusal to respond to a very simple and basic point:  that it's preposterous to conclude that a tax bite amounting to less than 3k would be a deal-breaker to anyone with a serious intention of of purchasing a 250K annual income.


<<As much as Obama and his supporters wish he were the second coming of JFK, he and they play the game like they are Nixon.>>

Wrong again.  Nixon invoked the power of the government at his disposal to shatter the privacy of his enemies.  As you well know, Obama did no such thing.

<<Joe won't go down in history as a plumber, but he very well may go down in history as a charter member of Obama's Enemy List.>>

Let me know when you have returned to Earth from your hysterical flights of fancy.

<<Change, my ass. >>

We'll see.  You may be right on that last one.

[Amianthus]

IN the first place, the investigation of Joe the Plumber was not done by the state but by the press,

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/37586

The sinister attention came from the state of the Ohio where. According to the Columbus Dispatch, a state agency, the Department of Job and Family Services, pried extensively into his background, using state computer systems to check for whether he was paying child support, receiving welfare assistance or behind on unemployment compensation taxes.

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

The use of a state computer system to search for information on Wurzelbacher is the fourth uncovered by The Dispatch.

More in Plane's original post.

Wrong again. Nixon invoked the power of the government at his disposal to shatter the privacy of his enemies. As you well know, Obama did no such thing.

No, Obama did not, but his supporters did. IIRC Nixon used surrogates as well.

[Michael Tee]

<<No, Obama did not, but his supporters did [use state power to investigate an enemy.] IIRC Nixon used surrogates as well.>>

Nixon used members of the White House and CIA staff to do the dirty work.  Obama did not.

Furthermore, since the only "dirt" dug up on the guy were matters of public record, where do you get the idea that special powers beyond those available to any citizen were required for this investigation?

[Amianthus]

Furthermore, since the only "dirt" dug up on the guy were matters of public record, where do you get the idea that special powers beyond those available to any citizen were required for this investigation?

Reading comprehension problems?

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

Such information was not and cannot be publicly shared, she said. It is unclear if Wurzelbacher is involved in a child-support case. Reports state that he lives alone with a 13-year-old son.
 

[sirs]

[Xavier_Onassis]

Does anyone really expect him to deliver even half of his promises?

Are expectations for his presidency high or low?

How long can he blame his problems on the previous administration?

As minority party , how much can Republicans and independants prevent the implementation of seriously objectionable programs?
========================================================================

Republicans can prevent this about as much as those of us who thought invading Iraq was insane could prevent that.

There is NOTHING as useless as stupid or damaging to this country that Obama has proposed as the Iraq War has been to the US.

[Plane]

Does anyone really expect him to deliver even half of his promises?

Are expectations for his presidency high or low?

How long can he blame his problems on the previous administration?

As minority party , how much can Republicans and independants prevent the implementation of seriously objectionable programs?
========================================================================

Republicans can prevent this about as much as those of us who thought invading Iraq was insane could prevent that.

There is NOTHING as useless as stupid or damaging to this country that Obama has proposed as the Iraq War has been to the US.

That is not an objective opinion, reciprosity of foolishness should be considered a law of nature , when I look foolish to you , you seem equally foolish to me.