Author Topic: This Is Where America Is Headed  (Read 1539 times)

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Kramer

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This Is Where America Is Headed
« on: January 20, 2010, 11:34:49 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100120/ap_on_re_eu/eu_netherlands_hate_speech/print

Dutch anti-Islam lawmaker faces hate speech trial
By TOBY STERLING, Associated Press Writer Toby Sterling, Associated Press Writer Wed Jan 20, 1:02 pm ET

AMSTERDAM – Dutch lawmaker Geert Wilders sat in the defendant's dock Wednesday, nodding his head as prosecutors read aloud a hundred remarks he has made condemning Islam, Muslims and immigrants — notably one comparing the Quran to Hitler's "Mein Kampf."

Wilders' criminal trial for allegedly inciting hate against Muslims has resonance across Europe: He is one of a dozen right-wing politicians on the continent who are testing the limits of freedom of speech while voicing voters' concerns at the growth of Islam.

The flamboyant bleach-blond politician has also called for taxing clothing commonly worn by Muslims, such as headscarves, because they "pollute" the Dutch landscape. He may be best known for the 2008 short film "Fitna," which offended Muslims around the world by juxtaposing Quranic verses with images of terrorism by Islamic radicals.

"I know the words I use are sometimes hard, but they are never impetuous," he told judges Wednesday.

"I also do not intend to hurt people's feelings. I have nothing against Muslims. I have a problem with Islam and the Islamization of our country because Islam is diametrically opposed to freedom."

His lawyer said Wilders is innocent and asked for the charges to be dismissed. Failing that, he wishes to call 17 witnesses, including Mohammed Bouyeri — the Dutch-born Muslim radical serving a sentence of life in prison for the brutal 2004 murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh. Van Gogh had also incurred Muslim ire for a documentary criticizing Islam, and Wilders has lived under constant police protection since his killing.

Judges will rule on a move for summary dismissal Feb. 3, with the prosecution's opening statements in March if the case proceeds.

Around 200 Wilders supporters demonstrated outside the court, many carrying signs saying "Stop the Islamization of Europe."

"There are lots and lots of them (Muslims) who are good people, decent, hardworking people — it's not about that," said Jeroen Korthuis, who traveled from the northern province of Friesland to attend the protest. "It's about their numbers."

Muslims, mostly from Morocco and Turkey, make up about six percent of the Dutch population of 16 million after a wave of immigration in the 1980s and 1990s.

"We're afraid that it will be too much. Too much immigration in too little time, in too small a country," Korthuis said.

"As more and more come here, they will influence your society: beliefs, church, justice system — everything."

Immigration-related issues have dominated politics in the Netherlands and much of Europe over the past decade. Wilders has drawn comparisons with populists such as Jorg Haider in Austria and Jean-Marie Le Pen in France as he cashed in on the growing unease. His Freedom Party now rivals the Netherlands' largest, although it has not yet won a place in any governing coalition.

Publicity resulting from previous attempts to stop him from promoting his views — such as the refusal of Dutch television to air "Fitna" and a travel ban imposed by the government of Britain — has only increased his popularity. Many observers expect his trial to have the same effect.

If convicted, he could face a maximum sentence of two years in prison, though a fine of up to euro18,500 ($26,800) is more likely. He could theoretically keep his seat in parliament.

While Wilders supporters see the trial as an attack on of freedom of expression, immigrant groups see it as a test of whether the Dutch government is willing to support minority rights, including freedom of religion and freedom from discrimination — guaranteed in the first words of the Dutch constitution.

Anti-racism groups have long sought Wilders' prosecution, saying his remarks go beyond being offensive and compound ethnic tensions in the Netherlands, a country once regarded a beacon of tolerance.

"Racist incidents in the workplace are rising, and the labor unions say that too," said Rene Danen of Nederland Bekent Kleur — Dutch for "The Netherlands Shows Its Colors." The group was one of several that filed a formal complaint against Wilders. "One in three Muslims here now say they are considering leaving."

He said Wilders' remarks clearly violate hate speech laws and his case is no different from many other discrimination suits filed each year.

Sadik Harchaoui, the head of Forum, an institute that promotes integration, said he didn't see any positive outcome to the case.

"Whatever the verdict may be, it's going to be another element in polarization," he said.

___

Associated Press reporter Mike Corder contributed to this story from The Hague.

Michael Tee

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 01:14:17 AM »
I beg to differ, Kramer.  THIS is where America is headed:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/very-american-coup

BT

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 02:07:51 AM »
Anything is possible.


Religious Dick

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 03:03:29 AM »
I beg to differ, Kramer.  THIS is where America is headed:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/very-american-coup

If I have to pick between the two.... I like this one!
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

BSB

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 04:09:44 AM »
Ahh, the Europeans are starting up again I see. This time the Muslims are going to be the scapegoats. Well its been what, 70 years or so?, since they cooked 6,000,000 Jews. I guess they must be getting hungry. We We is going to go over and join up.


Plane

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 05:35:28 AM »
I beg to differ, Kramer.  THIS is where America is headed:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/very-american-coup



Quote
Health-care reform is now seen to have combined the inefficiency and inconsistency of government with the naked greed and exploitative talents of corporations. Medical rationing is a fact of life confronting anyone on the high side of 50. Presidential rhetoric that offered hope and change has lost all resonance. Mainstream media outlets are discredited and disintegrating, resulting in new levels of information anarchy.


Is this what Mother Jones thinks of the present efforts at medical reform?

Michael Tee

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 03:51:24 PM »
<<Health-care reform is now seen to have combined the inefficiency and inconsistency of government with the naked greed and exploitative talents of corporations.>>

That much is obvious.

<<Medical rationing is a fact of life confronting anyone on the high side of 50.>>

Could be, but I'd like to see more evidence, and also a definition of "medical rationing."

<<Presidential rhetoric that offered hope and change has lost all resonance.>>

"Lost all resonance," my ass.  It'll still resonate with anyone who dared to hope for positive change before, what was lost is Obama's credibility in claiming to be the agent of that hope and change.

<<Mainstream media outlets are discredited and disintegrating . . . >>

That observation is not only trite, but seems to be shared by both the left and the right.  Like, so, what else is new?

<< . . . resulting in new levels of information anarchy.>>

Nice phrase, "information anarchy."

<<Is this what Mother Jones thinks of the present efforts at medical reform?>>

Am I missing something here?  If this is a quote from a Mother Jones article, then, yeah, unless there's some kind of disclaimer attached to the article, why wouldn't it be what Mother Jones thinks of the present efforts at medical reform and the environment in which those efforts are being made?

Amianthus

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 04:11:24 PM »
So, Mikey, do you agree with this article and it's claims for a solution?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 06:48:19 PM »
Well, I agree with the article that a fascist coup is a likely possibility for America and that the worse things get for America, the likelier it becomes.  It was kind of interesting that some of the posters in this group, rather than admitting to any kind of alarm over the prospect, actually seemed to favour it.  And not only the usual suspects, either.

I think the solutions proposed are kind of Boy-Scoutish, Sunday school crap resembling Rodney King's "Why can't we all just get along?"

There's a kind of inevitability to all this.  Today's SCOTUS decision, for example, just seems to be greasing the slide into fascism, and America IS going down in the world, no doubt about that.  I always thought of America as what sailors call a "forgiving ship," that is to say, despite bad manoeuvering, or heeling severely to one side or the other, in the end it always rights itself and sails along, but somewhere along the line, it may have passed the point of no return.

Obama, for example, I thought might have been the one to take control and steer for a new port, but boy was I mistaken.  Just another slick-talking conman or a weakling who can't make headway against the tide.  And what a crew of compromising, gutless cowards - - Pelosi and Reid, in particular.  "Impeachment's not on the table."  God, I still cringe when I think of it.

The article only makes sense when it sets out the problem, it's laughable when it tries to find solutions.  I don't think there are solutions.

Rich

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 07:43:31 PM »
>>It was kind of interesting that some of the posters in this group, rather than admitting to any kind of alarm over the prospect, actually seemed to favour it.  And not only the usual suspects, either.<<

I'm sorry, but this bag of shit needs to go.

Michael Tee

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 07:47:31 PM »
Where are you going?

BSB

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 08:06:18 PM »
Look, MT, this is just the beginning of a new chapter. A new book, really. And not just for America, but for the world. Stop taking these small snapshots and pretending they're the big picture. Relax, be patient, stop running around like a chicken with its head cut off. This forum doesn't represent knowledgable America. These are just a bunch of reactionary rednecks in here who's time has come and gone. In another 40/50 years this country won't even be white let alone rightwing.   

Rich

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 08:12:04 PM »
The Boston Bitch has spoken.

He's obviously off his medication again, he's forgotten what just happened. The limp wristed queers in Massechssetts just elected a Republican! Virginia - Republican. New Jersey - Repubilcan.

So Mike, you steaming bag of shit, I wouldn't pay any attention to the Boston Bitch. It looks like he's mixing his Vicodin with Jim Beam again.

BSB

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 08:20:15 PM »
Just look at the midgets response. For him that's a deep analyses of the future of this country.


Rich

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Re: This Is Where America Is Headed
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 08:21:50 PM »
I'm crushed. Really.

 :D