Author Topic: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant  (Read 14173 times)

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domer

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2006, 01:32:58 PM »
Regardless of who owns what words under what circumstances, racism remains a twin-headed monster in American society. From the standpoint of blacks, the problem is both internal and external. It is internal roughly in the sense brought to the fore by Bill Cosby's highlighting and condemning black maladaptations to life in America, sometimes stark and gross and almost always self-defeating. There is every reason for blacks, as a group, to be psychologically mangled by the horrid gauntlet they've had to endure in their forced home. That is not the surprise. The remarkable element is the ability of "so many" (the "talented tenth" and beyond) to make a positive way in America despite what are truly handicapping conditions. In the end result, irreducibly, there is no substitute for the hard work and the salutary life life that many blacks, through dint of will and grace of God, have been able to embrace. In other words, it takes effort and devotion to the right principles, as Cosby inveighs, for blacks to make it in America.

Then there is the external consideration: the relative hostility or supportiveness of the general and specific milieus in which a given black may live. In realistic terms (which I won't now develop), the external situation for blacks, while marginally improving, are not robustly conducive to black advancement. Remember, we havee to talk about the whole problem, not just the strides the black achievers have made. My personal thesis is that blacks have a terrible burden in America, both internally generated (see the first paragraph) and externally generated (read American history) such that, unlike all other groups, blacks are "psychologically burdened" in a unique, debilitating way by the very history they have lived and the very environment that surrounds them. These injuries, under ideal circumstances (as in a church community or other supportive circumstances), would require "tending" in very caring, very human ways: taking the time, the effort, and the moral and emotional tones that allow life to thrive in our families, for example. The trouble is, for the bulk of our social life together, society is not arranged for this. (Whether it could be and still get the "job of a society" done is another issue.)

Thus, we return to the "Cosby theme" struck in the first paragraph: the emphasis on self-reliance. As we all know, a successful life is a salutary blend of both aspects: self-reliance and nurturance.

Diane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2006, 03:43:32 PM »
What is the point, if such point is a line in the proverbial sand, to use the word 'nigger' in a closed forum, IE all black?  They would not need to mark this point among themselves.

Crane, in one post you pose that the word is/has been hurtful and in another that  it is a power tool

"Mere utterance of the word, by a White, can be a career-ender, but Blacks, up and down the line, may utter it freely, without consequence, from Blacks or Whites.  "

"So, actually, when Blacks use the word 'nigger' among themselves, it is us, the Whites,  who are the real victims?

Guess the Blacks are too dumb to pick up on that.

Boy, are the niggers stupid, not to consider "our" feelings."


It is my feeling that no matter what the abuse a person might suffer and even though they may go on and replicate that abuse... they will not emote a healthy mental state from it.  Hence I will stick with the fact that it is not a term of endearment.

Plane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2006, 06:38:55 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickability/index.html?url=/video/showbiz/2006/11/21/anderson.intv.sinbad.richards.cnn

Sinbad, the comedian, was backstage at the time and he talks in an interview. Interesting.



Sinbad souds perceptive and intellegent here, I don't really know the comedy game but I can twig the explanation given here.

I really would like to see Don Rickles take on the issue , Don Rickles somehow makes real insults into unreal and funny insults , and I perceve it without understanding it.

yellow_crane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2006, 07:04:04 PM »


I really would like to see Don Rickles take on the issue , Don Rickles somehow makes real insults into unreal and funny insults , and I perceve it without understanding it.
[/quote]





Good point, Plane.

Do you think Don Rickles ever used insults on stage and have them fall flat, instead of being found funny?

Do you think he should have stopped and never tried again, at that point, if he did?

Do you think he paved good roads in addressing difficult things in our society with humor, exaggerating the negative in order to expose them to a freshness, provided through the audience's laughter, which provided a new, fresh perspective, in spite of their old baggage?

Do you think that Michael Richards, in using the word nigger on stage, has different parameters in its use that, say, when on the street?

Do you think that his previous use of inflammatory invective regarding Jews on stage furthur indicts him now, or helps to explain his daring?



Diane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2006, 07:10:33 PM »
I have been sitting here thinking about a challenge presented to me...

That I walk into a room full of blacks and start calling them 'niggers'...of course in an endearing way.  That the result of such would be my demise... a race riot and so on.

Now I do have friends in all walks of life and while I think that I could jokingly call them names, I just could not bring myself to remind them of all the hurt that the word carries.

That said... I wonder why it is perfectly 'ok' for black comedians to call whites honkys...
of course, I would not recommend a single black to stand in the middle of a room full of whites and call them honkys even endearlingly.

Plane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2006, 07:11:24 PM »
"...those who think racism can be "handled" in the think tank genre ..."



I like this point .

The evolution of language happens a lot faster on the street than in academe.

Can we infer that the changes that this word has gone through are still ongoing?

domer70

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2006, 07:16:04 PM »
Inept is inartful is offensive in this context. I don't know the "brand" of Richards's humor, but his outburst was not a contemplated part of a schtick. It was a desperate flailing to maintain (self-) respect, issued in crass, offensive terms to an opponent he needed very much to belittle. And he tried to do that in a socially, historically and morally degenerate way. His comments were outrageous. He fucked up, big time. It's best to admit that fact and go on from there, rather than trying to tweak his performance for a nobility it just doesn't have, and starkly not.

Plane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2006, 07:30:56 PM »


I really would like to see Don Rickles take on the issue , Don Rickles somehow makes real insults into unreal and funny insults , and I perceve it without understanding it.





Good point, Plane.

Do you think Don Rickles ever used insults on stage and have them fall flat, instead of being found funny?

>>Don Rickles is pretty old and very experienced , he also strikes me as intelligent , I can imagine that in his early carreer he had such a learning experience but I have seen his act on film several times and he succeeded every time I saw , even when he was feigning fear of an ethnic steriotype.<<

Do you think he should have stopped and never tried again, at that point, if he did?

>> I might , if it were me , but I am in a milleu that didn't exist when Don Rickles started doing comedy.<<

Do you think he paved good roads in addressing difficult things in our society with humor, exaggerating the negative in order to expose them to a freshness, provided through the audience's laughter, which provided a new, fresh perspective, in spite of their old baggage?

>> No ,I thought he was a good example of some older tradition of humor which has lots of less tolerable examples. Vaudaville included some humor too rough for a modern pallete and some of the Jokes told by Abraham Lincon seem insensitive to modern ears.<<

Do you think that Michael Richards, in using the word nigger on stage, has different parameters in its use that, say, when on the street?

>> Yes , but I don't feel qualified to expound on the subject deeply because I have so little experience as a performer. As a consumor of entertainment product I feel prepared to allow a performer some lattitude to explore that I do not allow for myself in day to day courtesy<<

Do you think that his previous use of inflammatory invective regarding Jews on stage furthur indicts him now, or helps to explain his daring?

>>I didn't know about that, was he enraged on that occasion?



[/quote]

yellow_crane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2006, 08:29:59 PM »
What you call "tweaking" in your locked-cog mentation I would refer to as evaluation of occurance and circumstance, and how politicians would suffer (and reasonably so, given the potential tangentials of the transgression) far stronger consequences than might a comic.

Also, I would suggest that your kneejerk absolutism, your granite demanding is other than just lack of tweak.


No, he fucked up big time.  I agree.

He had an Archie Bunker moment.  (Do you think Archie Bunken helped or hurt the cause?)

He was on stage, the word was not part of his act, but was a failed attempt to counter heckling.

He would not have responded the same way to the same heckling on the street, however. 

Your total, wall-ringing condemnation, though, surprises me, in that that is the usual recourse of those who are insecure enough to feel that, the louder and more absolute you towncry your blanket condemnation, the more you think you you redeem yourself with Blacks.  It could be called, all things considered, a cheap trick pony, or at least easy opportunism in a difficult issue.

Had you had been there, I know you would have gasped the loudest.

Do you turn in your coupons with your friends forever, if and when the terrible bi-syllable slips beyond their lips?

And the last time you used the word in anger (please be real here, and spare the denial none would believe, anyhow), did you resign yourself to the terrible truth that, according to your OWN logic, it forever labelled you, stained you irreversibly, a predjudiced,  bigotted racist?

While he fucked up, I still grant a pass, since it did happen in his work.  On the street, I would not.  As you know, you cannot tweat shit like this on the street.

The most dangerous outcome, imho, is that comedians everywhere would suffer via an intangible but nonetheless very real sense of censorship.

We need more risks taken from comedians, not less.

Course, bred-to-the-bone nannies, having far simplertools to work with, would see that otherwise.




sirs

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Re: an aside to Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2006, 08:31:44 PM »
I am an avid 'Survivor' fan and this years premise was based on 4 groups of 5 divided by ethnicity.  All but one white remain... two whites mutinied ( one of which verbalized about getting to the other team and forming an alliance with the other two remaining whites).  The only white voted off was a ditz with a strange hair-do consisting of dread locks and rubber bands.

You a survivor fiend as well, Diane?   8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

jerseyboy

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2006, 09:12:31 PM »
Crane, more verbal diarrhea, without the nutrients. You're a pathetic excuse for a psychologist, of all things.

yellow_crane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2006, 09:15:29 PM »
Crane, more verbal diarrhea, without the nutrients. You're a pathetic excuse for a psychologist, of all things.


You may be right.

I know you hope you are.

Plane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2006, 09:39:45 PM »
What is the point, if such point is a line in the proverbial sand, to use the word 'nigger' in a closed forum, IE all black?  They would not need to mark this point among themselves.


    Is the implacation of any word demeaning?
    Could you precede the word with a modifier like "merely"a?
    Is the context and the tone more important than the mere syllabals?
    When the intent to to wound , shock , cause fear or anger what sort of words are chosen?

     There are a lot of euphmisims that are shorthand for "I despise".

Plane

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Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2006, 09:44:34 PM »
" It is internal roughly in the sense brought to the fore by Bill Cosby's highlighting and condemning black maladaptations to life in America, sometimes stark and gross and almost always self-defeating."


    What is the ideal that Bill Cosby represents or asks for?

      Is it adaptation to the circumstances that leads to success with success as a reasonable goal and excellence as a means.

      Or is it a surrender to circumstance constructed , connived , to benefit caucasions?

Diane

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Re: an aside to Re: Another Take on Michael Richards's Racist Rant
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2006, 10:05:04 PM »
You a survivor fiend as well, Diane?   8)
[/quote]

absolutely...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2006, 10:07:45 PM by Diane »