dont be evil

[Kramer]

on this subject I think we`re still thinking singular sources of power.
nuclear,wind, bio-whatever shouldn`t be competing.

it`s this kind of thinking that will get us tri-state black-outs again.

we need many types of power sources .

note -nobody is addressing cost here- energy star is not gonna solve this.

if you are concerned about cost nuke is the cheapest and cleanest - clean is a cost savings too.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Nuclear would be cheapest if they could safely dispose of waste. Perhaps under and around Kramer's house.

It is not a question of either/or. We should be using wind, solar, geothermal and tidal plants as well as nuclear plants after the French model, which are safest. Each has its advantages as well as disadvantages.  I agree that wind farms are rather attractive and not a major disturbance to anyone. I have not counted bird carcasses. I like to think that windmills just kill the dumbest of birds, and that over the years, birds will grow smarter as evolution does its thing.

[Amianthus]

Sorry bub but you are pissing up a rope in your naive dream about a wind powered America.

Sorry, bub, but YOU'RE pissing up a rope if you think I have a fantasy about wind power providing all power in this country. I'm also a advocate of geothermal, tidal, nuclear, etc. We need to have multiple sources until we can convert to a primary hydrogen economy.

As far as GB is concerned:

"As of January 2010, the installed capacity of wind power in the United Kingdom was over 4 gigawatts (GW). Wind power is the second largest source of renewable energy in the UK after biomass. Over 1 GW of new wind power capacity was bought online during 2009, 800 MW onshore and 285 MW offshore. The British Wind Energy Association (BWEA) estimates that installed capacity will pass the 5 and 6 GW marks during 2010. The milestone of 1 gigawatt of installed offshore capacity was reached in April 2010, with the opening of the Gunfleet Sands and Robin Rigg wind farms."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_Kingdom

You really need to stop getting your information from old sources.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Hydrogen does not occur in elemental state: it requires electricity to create it, so wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear and other sources will be required to have a hydrogen economy. Also, better rechargeable batteries are essential, or at least preferable as a way of storing energy.

[Plane]

Some 20,000 solar electricity systems yielding an output of about 145 Megawatts (MW) were installed in 2003, almost twice the volume installed in the previous year. With these additions, the total solar electricity capacity in Germany is now estimated at over 400 Megawatts.
Germany saw slow growth in 2006, but still remains by far the largest PV market in the world. 968 Megawatts of PV were installed in Germany in 2006.
The German solar market generated total revenues of over 800 million euros in 2003. 
http://www.solarbuzz.com/FastFactsGermany.htm

[Plane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

Nuclear power is the primary source of electricity in France. In 2004, 425.8 TWh out of the country's total production of 540.6 TWh of electricity was from nuclear power (78.8%), the highest percentage in the world.[1].

France is also the world's largest net exporter of electric power, exporting 18% of its total production (about 100 TWh) to Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Britain, and Germany, and its electricity cost is among the lowest in Europe.

[Plane]

the British Government has also committed to cutting CO2 emissions by 20% by 2010, 60% by 2050, and 80% by 2100, compared to 1990 levels.....

............The achievement of the first of these targets should have been made considerably easier due to an inadvertent reduction in CO2 emissions caused by the (cost driven) displacement of coal by natural gas in electricity generation. Compared to coal, gas produces around 30% less CO2 when burnt, since natural gas contains a larger percentage of hydrogen than coal does. Filling the electricity generation gap (see below) while cutting emission levels presents a significant challenge. CO2 emissions from electricity generation have already risen 15%[3] since 1997, though were still 15.9% lower than 1990 levels.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom

[Amianthus]

Hydrogen does not occur in elemental state: it requires electricity to create it, so wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear and other sources will be required to have a hydrogen economy. Also, better rechargeable batteries are essential, or at least preferable as a way of storing energy.

Duh. We have a carbon economy but do not rely on the elemental state of that element, either. There are other useful hydrogen compounds outside of H₂.

[Plane]

http://www.mbendi.com/indy/powr/af/sa/p0005.htm

electricity supply industries of Southern Africa are dominated by the State owned utility of South Africa, ESKOM. ESKOM generates around two thirds of the electricity produced in the whole of Africa and is extending its transmission grid north into neighbouring sub-Saharan countries. Eskom provides about 95% of South Africa's electrical power and more than 60% of Africa's. It has been forecasted that by 2008 the country's electricity demand is expected to exceed supply capacity, and South African power exports have already been restricted.

ESKOM, with a generating capacity of 35 200 MW from 20 power stations, is one of the largest utilities in the world, and generates approximately 98% of South Africa's electricity. Generation is primarily coal-fired, but also includes a nuclear power station at Koeberg, two gas turbine facilities, two conventional hydroelectric plants, and two hydroelectric pumped-storage stations. The company also owns and operates the national transmission system.

[Plane]

India is world's 6th largest energy consumer, accounting for 3.4% of global energy consumption. Due to India's economic rise, the demand for energy has grown at an average of 3.6% per annum over the past 30 years.[1] In March 2009, the installed power generation capacity of India stood at 147,000 MW[2] while the per capita power consumption stood at 612 kWH.[3] The country's annual power production increased from about 190 billion kWH in 1986 to more than 680 billion kWH in 2006.[4] The Indian government has set an ambitious target to add approximately 78,000 MW of installed generation capacity by 2012.[5] The total demand for electricity in India is expected to cross 950,000 MW by 2030.[6]



About 75% of the electricity consumed in India is generated by thermal power plants, 21% by hydroelectric power plants and 4% by nuclear power plants.[7] More than 50% of India's commercial energy demand is met through the country's vast coal reserves.[1] The country has also invested heavily in recent years on renewable sources of energy such as wind energy.[8] As of 2008, India's installed wind power generation capacity stood at 9,655 MW.[9] Additionally, India has committed massive amount of funds for the construction of various nuclear reactors which would generate at least 30,000 MW.[10] In July 2009, India unveiled a $19 billion plan to produce 20,000 MW of solar power by 2020.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India

Electricity losses in India during transmission and distribution are extremely high and vary between 30 to 45%.[12] In 2004-05, electricity demand outstripped supply by 7-11%.[13] Due to shortage of electricity, power cuts are common throughout India and this has adversely effected the country's economic growth.[14][15] Theft of electricity, common in most parts of urban India, amounts to 1.5% of India's GDP.[16][17] Despite an ambitious rural electrification program,[18] some 400 million Indians lose electricity access during blackouts.[19] While 80 percent of Indian villages have at least an electricity line, just 44 percent of rural households have access to electricity.[17] According to a sample of 97,882 households in 2002, electricity was the main source of lighting for 53% of rural households compared to 36% in 1993.[20] Multi Commodity Exchange has sought permission to offer electricity future markets.[21]

[Plane]

China uses its vast coal resources chiefly to produce cheap electricity, and this production more than tripled between 1990 and 2004; 78% of electricity generated in China in 2004 came from coal-fired power plants, compared with 17% in Canada.(3)

Future Prospects
A recent study published by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) shows that annual per capita electricity consumption in China, at around 1,700 kilowatt-hours (kWh), remains relatively low:  the rate of consumption in rich industrialized nations is on average five times greater.(4)  It is therefore reasonable to expect that electricity consumption will increase in China as the country grows wealthier and its middle class expands.

According to the reference scenario of the International Energy Agency (IEA), China’s electricity production will more than double in the next 10 years and coal-fired power plants will continue to dominate the market (Figure 1).(5)

............................

The predominant use of coal in China is easy to explain.  First, the abundance of coal supplies guarantees a reliable source of energy:  China has the third largest coal reserves in the world, after the United States and Russia, with an estimated 114 billion metric tonnes.(10)  By far the planet’s biggest producer and consumer of coal, China was responsible for more than one third of global coal production and consumption in 2005.(11)  Chinese coal consumption increased by 62% between 2000 and 2005.(12)  According to the IEA reference scenario, China and India will account for 57% of the world’s coal consumption by 2030.(13)


http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/ResearchPublications/prb0704-e.htm


http://www.sp-china.com/powerIndustry/ppac.htm

Driven by sustained rapid growth of national economy, both electricity generation and consumption in China had the tendency of parallel rapid increase in 2003, a year with fastest growth rate since open and reform policy. In this year, the national electricity generation amounted to 1905.2 TWh, or 15.17% higher than the previous year; and the electricity consumption of the whole society amounted to 1889.1 TWh, or 15.29% higher than the previous year. The nationwide power shortage situation, however, became more and more severe, twenty-two provinces (autonomous regions, municipalities) suffered from load curtailments, in which, the most severe regions included Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Shanghai, Yunnan, Guizhou, Hebei (southern area), Shanxi, Inner Mongolia (western area), etc. Dealing with this rigorous power supply situation, under the unified disposal of the State Council, all related units had made concerted efforts and taken effective measures to alleviate
 
 More...   http://www.sp-china.com/
 
 
 
  
   Sinopec, CNOOC jointly discovered a new gas field in E. China Sea (2010-05-07)  
 China coal supply to stay tight this year (2010-05-05)  
 PetroChina says profit up 71 pct (2010-04-30)  
 China Coal Energy 2009 net profit up 10 pct (2010-04-28)  
 China coal profit rises 9.9% as economy grows (2010-04-26)  
 China oil demand up on double-digit growth (2010-04-23)  
 China carbon emissions to exceed 10 billion tons by 2020 (2010-04-21)  
 China March crude runs up 18 pct (2010-04-19)  
 China National Coal unit produces 10.88 mln tons of coal in March (2010-04-16)  
 China 2010 coking coal imports seen up 47 pct (2010-04-14)  
 
 
 

[Plane]

Brazil is the 10th largest energy consumer in the world and the largest in South America. At the same time, it is an important oil and gas producer in the region and the world's second largest ethanol fuel producer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Brazil

Brazil is the third largest hydroelectricity producer in the world after China and Canada. In 2004 hydropower accounted for 83% of Brazilian power production.[1] The gross theoretical capability exceeds 3,000 TWh per annum, of which 800 TWh per annum is economically exploitable.[7] In 2004, Brazil produced 321TWh of hydropower.[11]

The installed capacity is 59 GW.[11] Brazil co-owns the Itaipu hydroelectric power plant on the Paraná River located on the border between Brazil and Paraguay, which is the world's second largest operational hydroelectric power plant with installed generation capacity of 14 GW by 20 generating units of 700 MW each.[12]

Due the Brazil's reliance on hydroelectric power and lack of investments in transmission, the reserves were being used from several years, which let the dams with low level of water, then after another bad year of rain, in June 2001 the government was forced to ration electricity usage, which was ended in late 2001. Now a days due to the new rules of the sector new power lines were built so as new power plants, today the load is even bigger than in 2001 but the system is much safer than in 2001.

[edit] Nuclear energy
Nuclear energy accounts for about 4% of Brazil's electricity.[13

[Xavier_Onassis]

There are TWO huge dams on the huge Paraná River, one is the Itaipú Dam near Iguazú Falls, between Brazil and Paraguay and another, the Yacyretá Dam downstream, between Ituzaingó, Provincia de Corrientes, Argentina and Ayolas, Paraguay. The latter is 880 meters long, with a four-lane highway running along the top. Spectacular. There are seven sets of massive towers running to the west, south and east to other cities in Argentina, and just one on the Paraguayan side.

[Kramer]

There are TWO huge dams on the huge Paraná River, one is the Itaipú Dam near Iguazú Falls, between Brazil and Paraguay and another, the Yacyretá Dam downstream, between Ituzaingó, Provincia de Corrientes, Argentina and Ayolas, Paraguay. The latter is 880 meters long, with a four-lane highway running along the top. Spectacular. There are seven sets of massive towers running to the west, south and east to other cities in Argentina, and just one on the Paraguayan side.

wow you are really smart XO.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I visited Yacyretá a little over a year ago.