Raid Evidence of Disunity in Israeli Leadership?

[Michael Tee]

<<Then you must be applauding the Turks use of symbolism when they admit bad things happened and they will do their best to not let it happen again.>>

Yes, I do, because it's a start.  But it's nowhere near the Germans' admission.  The Germans never denied that the Holocaust was genocide.  The Turks should stop their denials and just fess up.  Otherwise they look like they're failing to acknowledge the enormity of the atrocity.  "Bad things happen" covers a lot of things, even the massacres of Anatolian villages by retreating Greek forces that immediately  preceded the Turks' massacre of the Armenians.

[BT]

Yes, I do, because it's a start.  But it's nowhere near the Germans' admission.

Perhaps that is because Turks aren't Germans.

[Michael Tee]

I think it's more of a universal human quality - - either you admit to your misdeeds or you bluster your way out of it.  Turks are not Germans, but that can't be the explanation for the difference.  It could be that the Holocaust and Germany's other crimes were followed by the complete devastation of the entire nation and a 45-year enforced severance of the country, so that everyone could see the failure of Nazi ideology and a destruction so complete as to appear as evidence of the hand of God, whereas no such punishment ever followed the Armenian Genocide so the gravity of it was never made so apparent to the Turks.  The other difference could have been that the Turks see the genocide as payback for the Greek army's massacres of the Anatolians, whereas the Nazi extermination of the Jews was a totally gratuitous act and as such, that much more reprehensible.

[BT]

It could be that the Holocaust and Germany's other crimes were followed by the complete devastation of the entire nation and a 45-year enforced severance of the country, so that everyone could see the failure of Nazi ideology and a destruction so complete as to appear as evidence of the hand of God, whereas no such punishment ever followed the Armenian Genocide so the gravity of it was never made so apparent to the Turks.

Very good!

[Plane]

So Hitlers advisors were basicly right.

Forgiveness or forgetfullness happens when there is good diplomatic reason for it.

The Twentyeth Century saw geonicide in several places that we don't commonly remember , but we excoriate the perpetrators who afterward lost the power to cover the crime , or the diplomatic clout to brazen it out..

[Michael Tee]

<<So Hitlers advisors were basicly right.>>

They were and they weren't.  It was all about reputation only, so even if they had been 100% right on reputation, nobody really gives a shit any more.  Countries don't give a shit about reputation.  I don't think Hitler's advisers (the ones who counseled against the Holocaust) had any inkling of the coming avalanche of information overload that was about to engulf the West fifty years after the war.  Nobody knows what happened ten years ago, let alone what happened in WWII.

<<Forgiveness or forgetfullness happens when there is good diplomatic reason for it.>>

Forgiveness happens with the passage of time, after all the victims die off.  My kids don't give a shit about Germany (which I guess is as it should be, my wife and I never tried to implant hatred of anyone in their hearts) but I'll hate the fucking bastards as long as I live.  Not the individual German, but the country, the idea of Germany, the people they were.  It's personal.  I'll never forget the middle-aged Europeans we met who told us how we were the same age as their son or daughter would have been.  One couple had a grocery store near our first apartment, and their daughter would have been the same age as my wife.  It was heart-breaking.  But even that hatred is weakening as time goes on.  We moved away, Heidi (the mother) passed away, we just don't think about it that much.

<<The Twentyeth Century saw geonicide in several places that we don't commonly remember , but we excoriate the perpetrators who afterward lost the power to cover the crime , or the diplomatic clout to brazen it out..
>>

We excoriate.  Good word.  We excoriate.  They don't feel a thing, but we feel good excoriating.  We don't have the power to punish but we sure as hell have the power to excoriate.  Words, words, words, just streaming off the keyboard.  It's cathartic, makes us feel a little better for shooting our mouths off, but the perpetrators are laughing even as we are excoriating.  They know that they have killed, and they also know that we never can, that we are just pounding our keyboards in impotent rage.  That's gotta be funny to them.

[Plane]

<<The Twentyeth Century saw geonicide in several places that we don't commonly remember , but we excoriate the perpetrators who afterward lost the power to cover the crime , or the diplomatic clout to brazen it out..
>>

We excoriate.  Good word.  We excoriate.  They don't feel a thing, but we feel good excoriating.  We don't have the power to punish but we sure as hell have the power to excoriate.  Words, words, words, just streaming off the keyboard.  It's cathartic, makes us feel a little better for shooting our mouths off, but the perpetrators are laughing even as we are excoriating.  They know that they have killed, and they also know that we never can, that we are just pounding our keyboards in impotent rage.  That's gotta be funny to them.

Ouch , that hits home.

But all the human world is in conversation, I like to think that the consensus that forms here and there has influence and that the communication isn't a waste.

[Michael Tee]

<<But all the human world is in conversation, I like to think that the consensus that forms here and there has influence and that the communication isn't a waste.>>

I think every fucking word I've written in here is a total waste.  I've changed absolutely nothing.  Mao was right:  all power flows out of the barrel of a gun.  Palestine and Gaza won't be liberated by words, even if they had the greatest wordsmiths in the world writing for them 24/7.

[Plane]

<<But all the human world is in conversation, I like to think that the consensus that forms here and there has influence and that the communication isn't a waste.>>

I think every fucking word I've written in here is a total waste.  I've changed absolutely nothing.  Mao was right:  all power flows out of the barrel of a gun.  Palestine and Gaza won't be liberated by words, even if they had the greatest wordsmiths in the world writing for them 24/7.

That is good news for the US.

We have pretty good guns.


I have learned a lot from you , not just what you have put forward , but also what I had to go find in order to present arguement.

Wepons are used after decisions , heaven forbid that these decisions could have been better informed.

[Xavier_Onassis]

That is good news for the US.

We have pretty good guns.

===================================
Only if the US does not get into a row with the Chinese or the Indians, being as they have potentially as many gunmen as the US has people.

It seems that the AK-47 is a weapon greatly preferred over whatever the US Army is using now, if only because it is so much cheaper to produce.

[sirs]

<<But all the human world is in conversation, I like to think that the consensus that forms here and there has influence and that the communication isn't a waste.>>

I think every fucking word I've written in here is a total waste.  I've changed absolutely nothing.  Mao was right:  all power flows out of the barrel of a gun.  Palestine and Gaza won't be liberated by words, even if they had the greatest wordsmiths in the world writing for them 24/7.

So, once again, Tee favors Israel to remove all safeties off their weapons systems, and let the Middle East know they're not going anywhere.  Cool

Speaking of total waste, is this continued perverse aversion to responding to all POV, when they're, dare I say, obviously not some 24/7 accusation of lying, as "some" tried to claim.  But hey, it's your credibility.  Burn it as you see fit

[Xavier_Onassis]

I think every fucking word I've written in here is a total waste.  I've changed absolutely nothing.  Mao was right:  all power flows out of the barrel of a gun.  Palestine and Gaza won't be liberated by words, even if they had the greatest wordsmiths in the world writing for them 24/7.
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I doubt that anything anyone says here will change anything. No one here has the power to change a thing. I suppose that since you have some relatives and others you know that live in Israel, that conceivably you might change the way they vote in Israeli elections, but the possibility of changing the situation in Palisrael by changing, say, Kramer's mind, CU4's mind, sirs' mind or anyone else's mind in here would not change reality in the slightest.

No one here has any actual influence in foreign affairs. I write senators and congressmen from time to time, but I have never received any hint that my letter has changed any minds.

[Plane]

That is good news for the US.

We have pretty good guns.

===================================
Only if the US does not get into a row with the Chinese or the Indians, being as they have potentially as many gunmen as the US has people.

It seems that the AK-47 is a weapon greatly preferred over whatever the US Army is using now, if only because it is so much cheaper to produce.

Are they better? All right then lets buy some , if there is one thing that has turned out to be true , it is that a Communist country will sell you the rope when it is time to hang them.

[Plane]

I write senators and congressmen from time to time, but I have never received any hint that my letter has changed any minds.

These letters are all read and sorted , then measured by the ton.

Enough letters tip a scales, it does make a diffrence.

They are also mostly answered , the very poor answer I got from Max Cleland cost him my vote before the campaign got started.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I think that AK-47's are so popular because they are cheap to produce, ammo is readily available,and no one has to pay any patent rights to the inventor. I believe you will find that they are produced in many different countries.