Author Topic: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!  (Read 6096 times)

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sirs

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2011, 02:20:06 PM »
Good thing we're not.  We're at war with Islamic radical militants, who mutate the message of Islam to justify their terrorist acts,

NOT the religion of Islam
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2011, 02:24:22 PM »
That is not the way that the Muslims see it.

They rightfully see you and your ilk as a bunch of bigoted Christians and Zionists on some Great Crusade.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2011, 03:14:21 PM »
Good thing those "Muslims" (nice to see how Xo can speak for them), can count on you to parrot their propoganda
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2011, 03:24:49 PM »
I don't parrot anyone's propaganda. The fact is that the US cannot win a war against Islam. Islam may be divided in any ways, but it is not divided into pro Zionist, pro American and anti-American, anti-Zionist factions.

There would be a lot more hostility in the Muslim world had McCain been elected.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2011, 03:30:05 PM »
Sure you do...when you opine that "those Muslims" RIGHTLY see America as a bunch of religious bigots on some crusade against Islam.  So, your perpetuation of how the U.S. can't win a war against Islam is a red herring, a bogus tangent, since we're not, and never have been.  It's those Islamic militants, I referred to earlier, that are trying to make that claim, to drum up support for their terrorist actions

And there you are embracing and parroting it.  Cudos.  As I said, I'm sure those "Muslims" are very appreciative
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2011, 03:33:23 PM »
Good thing we're not.  We're at war with Islamic radical militants, who mutate the message of Islam to justify their terrorist acts,

============================================================
Yeah, but when they take out 24 Pakistani troops with a drone, that is  less than convincing message.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2011, 04:06:50 PM »
NATO, is not the U.S.  Nor does that equate to a "crusade against Islam", bigoted or otherwise, no matter how much you parrot the Islamic radicals' message
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BSB

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2011, 05:08:10 PM »
"Bush fully supported his General and Let General Petraeus do his job no matter what the left wanted...."

We invaded Iraq in 2003, Petraeus took command in 2007. From 2003 to 2007 we used the wrong strategy. Bush and Rumsfeld had a bunch of know nothing conventional commanders in there who didn't know an insurgency from an M1 tank.

=============

.........I had a long post here but I just dumped the rest of it. Why bother? I went over and over this stuff in 2003 right after the 1st phase of the invasion and it became obvious things were going sour. If you want to pretend you know what you're talking about, be my guest.


BSB


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2011, 07:14:06 PM »
.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 03:26:10 PM by Christians4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2011, 07:21:07 PM »


Taliban, artillery, and lies in Mohmand Agency

By Matt Dupee

November 27, 2011

Shortly after midnight on Nov. 26, US attack helicopters rocketed and strafed two lightly manned observation posts located on the Anargai Ghakhi mountain peak in the Mohmand tribal agency, known as the Salala security posts, roughly one mile inside Pakistani territory. The deadly air blitz killed at least 24 Pakistani soldiers and injured 13 others, according to Pakistani officials. The heated diplomatic row between Pakistan and NATO over the incident has escalated, with Pakistan ordering the US to vacate a key airbase in Baluchistan and closing NATO's supply lines through Jamrud in Khyber and Chaman in Baluchistan.

Senior Western and Afghan officials told reporters on Sunday that a small group of US and Afghan forces on patrol in Kunar province were fired on first from positions inside Pakistani territory, prompting calls for close air support which wiped out the two Pakistani mountain posts. However, the Pakistani military remains adamant that the attack should have been avoided. Major General Athar Abbas, chief spokesman for the Pakistan military, told the Guardian that he did not believe ISAF or Afghan forces had received fire from the Pakistani side. "I cannot rule out the possibility that this was a deliberate attack by ISAF," Abbas said. Afghan officials maintain that US and Afghan forces retaliated with airstrikes after coming under fire from the direction where the two military forts are located.

Pakistan's unprecedented response to the attack in Mohmand is curious, especially given the countless reports over the past six months of Pakistani military forts shelling Afghan territory from positions in Mohmand, Dir, and Chitral. One such incident took place on June 18, prompting a similar US gunship raid against a Pakistani military post one mile inside Pakistani territory, also in Mohmand. The June attack came after a number of artillery shells fired from Pakistani territory struck homes in the Shunkrai area of the Sarkani (Sarkanay) district in eastern Kunar province. At the time, Kunar's governor, Syed Fazlullah Wahidi, told Pajhwok Afghan News that the areas of Dangam, Shigal, and Sarkani were fired upon by Pakistani military positions for the better part of a week, with one strike killing four children in the Shigal district.

The Salala security posts are located in the Taliban-controlled Baizai area of Mohmand, a well-known hotbed of militant activity that has significantly impacted security on both sides of the border. Since March, numerous Taliban swarm attacks have ravaged Pakistani outposts in the region, prompting violent reactions from Pakistani forces who frequently shell suspected militant positions located in eastern Afghanistan's Kunar and Nuristan provinces. Pakistani forces reportedly killed 65 Taliban fighters in the Baizai area in June alone. On Sept. 1, however, the Pakistani military claimed that a massive security operation had secured 80-85 percent of Mohmand and that 72 soldiers, including three officers, had been killed in the offensive against militants in the tribal agency.

Baizai is a known transit point and safe haven for Tehrik-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan (TTP) commanders Maulvi Faqir Mohammad and Mullah Fazlullah, according to an Afghan analyst familiar with the situation who spoke to The Long War Journal on condition of anonymity. Both Afghan officials and TTP representatives have confirmed that Mullah Fazlullah frequents the area, and he is also known to bed down in Afghanistan's Nuristan province.

Taliban incursions on both sides of the border have successfully exploited a tense border situation to the breaking point. Afghan officials, including the Afghan Border Police commander in charge of the eastern zone, Brigadier General Aminullah Amarkhel, Kunar's Provincial Chief of Police General Ewaz Mohammad, and Kunar's Provincial Governor Syed Fazlullah Wahidi, have repeatedly accused the Pakistani military positioned in Mohmand, Dir, and Chitral of shelling Afghan territory this year.

Since May, Pakistan has shelled eastern Afghan border towns located in Khost; Nangarhar (Ghowshta district - Allakhel, Tareli, and Lakarai villages); Paktia (Dand va Patan district); and Kunar (Shigal, Sarkanay, Khas Kunar (Shankor village), Naray (Sawh village), and Dangam districts). The New York Times reported on July 3 that Pakistani rocket and artillery shells have killed 42 Afghans and wounded 48 in three provinces of eastern Afghanistan between May and August.

Previous calls from the Afghan Parliament for Karzai to sever ties with Islamabad in July over the cross-border shelling incidents failed to gain traction. Allegations of cross-border shelling continued unabated in September and October, prompting Afghanistan's eastern provincial officials to lobby the Karzai administration to hold Pakistan accountable for the reckless endangerment of Afghan civilians living in the border districts. On Oct. 12, representatives from eight districts in Kunar appointed two delegations to facilitate direct talks with Afghan government and Pakistan army officials concerning the shelling.

In mid-October, Afghan officials in Kunar claimed that Pakistan had fired 1,591 rounds into the province over the past six months, killing 27 people and injuring another 42; many of these attacks originated from strategic positions in Mohmand. The following is a short recap of recent reports on Mohmand violence and alleged cross-border shelling incidents:

Sept. 1: Pakistani military officials claimed a security operation against militants secured 80-85 percent of the Mohmand Agency. The security offensive cost the lives of 72 Pakistani soldiers, including three officers. The area of Baizai remained outside the control of the Pakistani military.
 
Sept. 11: Heavy clashes between Taliban gunmen and Pakistani security forces killed three people and injured nine others as an anti-Taliban lashkar (tribal militia) and Pakistani forces attacked militant positions in Soran Darra, Baizai, and the Kodakhel areas of Mohmand Agency.

Sept. 24: Kunar's governor claimed the Pakistani army fired more than 300 artillery shells into eastern Kunar and Nuristan provinces which caused human and property losses. About 250 shells of long-range artillery had been fired into Dangam district since Sept. 22 from Dir, according to Governor Wahidi. Two mosques and six houses were also damaged in the attacks.

Sept. 26: The Afghan Ministry of Foreign Affairs summoned Pakistan's ambassador to Afghanistan over recent artillery shelling into Afghanistan's eastern provinces. The same day, Kunar's governor claimed 10 artillery shells fired from Pakistan had struck the Dangam district.

Oct. 8: The Provincial Government in Kunar accused Pakistani military units of firing 33 artillery shells into the province, with 20 of them landing in Narai and 13 others in the Dangam district; the shelling injured six people, killed 50 head of livestock, and destroyed three houses. Afghan government officials blamed the attacks on Pakistani units operating in Dir and Chitral districts.

Oct. 15: Afghan officials claimed Pakistan fired at least 45 artillery shells into Kunar's Dangam district which injured a child and damaged several civilian houses.

Oct. 16: Much to the ire of local residents, Afghan President Hamid Karzai told reporters that "most media reports about Pakistan's missile strikes into Afghanistan were exaggerated."

Oct. 17: Kunar's Chief of Police told reporters that recent Pakistani shelling attacks killed 27 civilians and injured 42 others. Provincial council member Syed Sikandar Shah Bacha said Pakistani forces had recently shelled the border districts of Narai, Ghaziabad, Dangam, Asmar, Shegal, Marawara, Sarkano, and Khas Kunar.

Pakistan has denied the allegations of recklessly shelling the Afghan frontier, claiming that a few errant shells might have landed in Afghan territory, but has argued that Afghan militants have been rampaging garrison towns in northwestern Pakistan since May.

Although it is currently unknown what triggered the "tactical development" along the Afghan-Pakistan border on Nov. 26, given recent events in the area it is likely that the aerial destruction of the remote Pakistani outposts was prompted by either the movement of Taliban fighters between Kunar and Mohmand or by artillery salvos emanating from Mohmand, or both.


http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/11/taliban_artillery_an.php
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2011, 07:44:22 PM »
BSB I can appreciate what you are saying. I am sure mistakes were made. In what war were mistakes not made? Hind-site is usually 20/20. Thus far I am glad we invaded Iraq, I think it is a success to get rid of Saddam who used his WMD's on his own people, I think thanks to the US Iraq still has a great chance to be a democracy....something rare in the Middle East. But yes mistakes were made as they will be in most fluid war situations.

With that said I have praised President Clinton on multiple occasions for the way the war in Kosevo was conducted. Beautiful strategy in Kosevo. I think the same basic war strategy could work on Iran.  Of course each war theater is different. And although I am still very unsure about whether the Libyan people and the world will be better off with what replaces Khadafi, I do think it looks like Obama handled the war strategy to get rid of Khadafi quite well. Let others do the fighting, pay the bill, be in the background offering all kinds of support, let others be the pointman so as to avoid the demonization, and limit American loss of life.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2011, 08:03:43 PM »
Yeah, but when they take out 24 Pakistani troops with a drone, that is  less than convincing message.

See SIRS....there he is automatically assuming we're guilty!
That's is default mode...."oh the US must be guilty".
It's amazing watching the Left thought process...
Always assume the worst first about the US.

Nevermind with facts like that Afghanistan and the US have
complained and warned the Paks about shelling their positions...
If Paks are killed by a drone "well hell it must be America's fault".
::)

Yep
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BSB

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2011, 09:27:54 PM »
"Hind-site is usually 20/20."

Hind-site?

Undestanding what was going on in 2003, in 2003, isn't hind-site. I removed the blade from your neck out of mercy, CU4, but don't push your luck.

BSB

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2011, 09:59:22 PM »
"Hind-site is usually 20/20." Hind-site? 
Undestanding what was going on in 2003, in 2003, isn't hind-site.
I removed the blade from your neck out of mercy, CU4, but don't push your luck. BSB

Ok "Sling Blade"...lol
yes hindsight...is 20/20
backseat driver's licenses are cheap
you may have thought some things should have been handled different
i certainly did....but I would about almost any operation military, business, whatever
it's easy with hindsight or even in current time to sit back without all the facts and assume "its all wrong"
it seems to me you bit into almost all the Leftwing talking points about the Liberation of Iraq & take it as gospel
ok fine....i don't....because I think reality shows something very different.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: High Stakes in Syria makes for crowded waters!
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2011, 10:25:05 PM »

And there you are embracing and parroting it.  Cudos.  As I said, I'm sure those "Muslims" are very appreciative

==========================================
So far as I know, they are totally unaware that I have ever said anything.

It is safe to say that if a US drone kills 24 Pakistanis, the responsible party is whoever sent that drone.

The only argument is to say they had a valid MOTIVE for doing this, or perhaps it was sheer incompetence.

A drone is like a bullet: it has no mind of its own.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."