DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Kramer on November 06, 2010, 04:31:03 PM
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I guess some folks in India assumed that Obama was a trained orator. For the first time ever a teleprompter will be used to address Parliament.
Nice to know that the first black president needs training wheels (aka a teleprompter) to speak to India's ruling people. Too bad our boy doesn't have the mental capacity to play with the big boys in the world arena.
Only a moron would vote for Obama in 2012!!
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It is getting pretty pathetic, this umbilical cord he has with it. No one is saying he shiouldn't use it, or that other Presidents haven't. But his use of it, so often, in so many places that never had one before, demonstrates an apparent lack of self confidence.
Then again, when he tries speaking without it.....well, you can see why he so frequently uses it.
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EVERY president has used a teleprompter since the current device was available. It is only because assholes like Limbaugh started mentioning it that it has become a constant element in criticism of the President. It is a matter of zero importance. Obama is an effective speaker, and there is no reason why any president should spend extra hours memorizing speeches when they can give a better speech using the teleprompter.
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EVERY president has used a teleprompter since the current device was available.
Not to this degree, you stupid jackass.
Other countries now are starting to make fun of him because he can't speak without his teleprompter.
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EVERY president has used a teleprompter since the current device was available. It is only because assholes like Limbaugh started mentioning it that it has become a constant element in criticism of the President. It is a matter of zero importance. Obama is an effective speaker, and there is no reason why any president should spend extra hours memorizing speeches when they can give a better speech using the teleprompter.
Your mental midget can't even speak to 6th Graders without his training wheels, aka his teleprompter.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/01/obama-uses-teleprompter-to-speak-to-6th-grade-class.html (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/01/obama-uses-teleprompter-to-speak-to-6th-grade-class.html)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef0120a808a501970b-800wi
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Some how, Xo missed the part where no one is claiming prior presidents haven't used one before. The issue is the ridiculus usage of it, like Kramer's picture demonstrates, or for the 1st time, EVER, it's being used with this Obama trip to India
Again, demonstrates both a severe lack of confidence by our president, and apparent ignorance in defending anything/everything Obama from Xo. It's as bad as his defense of Kerry in not paying his "fair share" in his yachting taxes debacle ::)
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Some how, Xo missed the part where no one is claiming prior presidents haven't used one before. The issue is the ridiculus usage of it, like Kramer's picture demonstrates, or for the 1st time, EVER, it's being used with this Obama trip to India
Again, demonstrates both a severe lack of confidence by our president, and apparent ignorance in defending anything/everything Obama from Xo. It's as bad as his defense of Kerry in not paying his "fair share" in his yachting taxes debacle ::)
Why is it you understood my point yet the so-called bright guy XO couldn't understand it? Is XO just plain dumb?
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UPDATE: Distinction or fresh from the splitting hairs dept:
"Obama did bring teleprompters along for his Jan. 19 visit to Graham Road Elementary School in Falls Church, Va. They were set up in a classroom where the president made a statement to reporters about expanding his Race to the Top program to improve schools. That happened after he chatted with the sixth-graders in a separate classroom -- with no teleprompters."
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/01/obama-uses-teleprompter-to-speak-to-6th-grade-class.html (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/01/obama-uses-teleprompter-to-speak-to-6th-grade-class.html)
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It helps......a little. You'd think he could have managed the latter without the teleprompters as well, though. Per the article being provided, he was merely "making a statement", correct?
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Obama's Home Teleprompter Malfunctions During Family Dinner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQTaWjMoFw#)
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It helps......a little. You'd think he could have managed the latter without the teleprompters as well, though. Per the article being provided, he was merely "making a statement", correct?
Dunno. Teleprompters are tools, just like microphones, wheelchairs, glasses or hearing aids. Would you expend near the energy on this if he was using those other tools?
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If other Presidents in other similar situations haven't, absolutely. And FYI, a wheelchair or hearing aid or even glasses, are "tools" to assist in some aknowledged level of impairment. Are you going on the record as referencing Obama's apparent speaking impariment?
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Tools are not only for remedying an application, they can be used to enhance an application.
In this case, public speaking.
Reagan often used index cards.
I would write out my motions when i was on council, and after making the motions and having them pass, give a copy to the clerk so the written minutes would reflect the actual motion.
You often post articles from others that reflect your position in issues, does that mean that you are incapable of expressing your position in your own words or simply that your feel that the pundit expresses your position better?
The important thing is not the means and or tools used to express the thought, but the thought itself.
I think all this focus on the teleprompter is a diversion, bordering on the petty.
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Tools are not only for remedying an application, they can be used to enhance an application.
In this case, public speaking.
In this case, it could easily be argued it's to cover a flaw, a weakness, like your other tool examples. And given the few occasions he has been without, I'd say it's a valid arguement. Feel free not to agree
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real men don't use teleprompters every single time they speak. I never have and never will.
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You have never said anything anyone would care to listen to.
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Says the fella who perseverates on how nothing of substance is debated here in the saloon, outside of demeaning comments/insults
Try practicing what you preach, sometime
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real men don't use teleprompters every single time they speak. I never have and never will.
Really, you speak in front of crowds often?
Do real men wear glasses?
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real men don't use teleprompters every single time they speak. I never have and never will.
Do real men wear glasses?
If they have trouble seeing, or have some vision impairment. I confess, I have a vision impairment. Just landed my 1st set of bifocals
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk110910dAPR20101109014545.jpg)
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real men don't use teleprompters every single time they speak. I never have and never will.
Really, you speak in front of crowds often?
Do real men wear glasses?
not often but on rare occasion
real men can use glasses
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real men can use glasses
Glad we cleared that up.
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I think all this focus on the teleprompter is a diversion, bordering on the petty.
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And that is exactly what it is. A petty diversion of no consequence whatever.
How useful of Kramer to inform us that Michelle Obama's butt is as big as a VW. And to think, he did this without a teleprompter!
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real men can use glasses
Glad we cleared that up.
No we didn't clear it up because comparing a teleprompter to eye glasses isn't a apples to apples comparison.
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Why not?
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Why not?
Why would you think it's the same thing? People need eye glasses to see but they don't need teleprompters to give speeches. A person with a great memory and high IQ should be able to give a speech without a teleprompter. A sheet of paper with the speech written on it works great. If Abe Lincoln could do it any president should be able to do it. On the other hand, if you have a shitty memory, or you can't hold a thought, then you should use a teleprompter. America needs the best of the best for our leaders not a mental midget average kinda a person that requires Affirmative Action help along the way.
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I would think that glasses are the same as teleprompters for much the same reason. They both enhance performance. A physically capable person should be able to walk a mile to the store, should they be castigated for using a car? Certainly saves time.
A person with a great memory and high IQ should be able to give a speech without a teleprompter.
Yes, but why not use a teleprompter if available, and use the memorization time for something else?
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I would think that glasses are the same as teleprompters for much the same reason. They both enhance performance. A physically capable person should be able to walk a mile to the store, should they be castigated for using a car? Certainly saves time.
A person with a great memory and high IQ should be able to give a speech without a teleprompter.
Yes, but why not use a teleprompter if available, and use the memorization time for something else?
Because it appears weak if not lazy. Do you know whether or not someone is typing messages to his teleprompter? For example, what if the boy is giving a press conference, with the teleprompter, and someone is typing up his answers. At least I have to wonder whether or not that is the case but if he doesn't use it then I don't have to wonder. I mean the boy hides everything about himself from his college records to his medical records, so him hiding behind a teleprompter just makes me wonder if he's doing it because he's a mental midget or for your speculations.
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Because it appears weak if not lazy.
So perception is reality?
Because you call black men boy and to some that would be racist, does that perception equal your reality?
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Because it appears weak if not lazy.
So perception is reality?
Because you call black men boy and to some that would be racist, does that perception equal your reality?
I don't call black men boy, I call Obama, a mulatto, boy. Because he reminds me of a 12 year old boy. Perception with regards to the teleprompter equals Bush's perception that WMD were in Iraq. Perhaps Obama graduated from college, but since he has sealed all records I really wouldn't know for sure, so my perception would simply be perception and nothing based on facts.
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Because he reminds me of a 12 year old boy.
How so?
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Because he reminds me of a 12 year old boy.
How so?
He's immature. For example an adult, that takes his job seriously, doesn't (can't) play golf daily and vacation every other month. Being president is a full time job not all fun and games. Immature young boys are into sports figures and pop stars and not really into working full-time. Boys like to party all the time, men like to work. Boys flip people off, men don't. Men don't rush to judgment like Obama did with the Cambridge cop fiasco. A boy let's Maureen Dowd's comments about his ears bother him, a man would NOT let the world know it bothered him. “I was teased relentlessly when I was a kid about my big ears.” A boy reacts to the shellacking he got a week ago by proclaiming he got the message, not saying (lying) the American people didn't get his message. Maybe he's a boy because he never had a real father around to lead him by example. I don't know why he's a boy but he strikes me as a little boy pretending to be a man. He really aught to watch what he does with his middle finger, especially when he's on camera! A president is presidential and I just don't get that from him.
Watch the boy flip off Hillary
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2008/04/18/did-obama-flip-hillary-clinton (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2008/04/18/did-obama-flip-hillary-clinton)
Watch the boy flip off McCain
Obama Flips Off McCain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBMdWxcFXQg#)
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Do you play golf? Have you ever taken a client out to the course? Was it all play or did some business get done?
And is a President ever really on vacation?
Not sure i understand your rationalization that you are only calling the white part of Obama boy, but you know what is in your heart, i don't.
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Do you play golf? Have you ever taken a client out to the course? Was it all play or did some business get done?
And is a President ever really on vacation?
Not sure i understand your rationalization that you are only calling the white part of Obama boy, but you know what is in your heart, i don't.
His race(s) or skin color mean nothing to me. Clearly it does to him though, and I guess you -- and the press, and to the majority of people that voted for him. His critics are racist for criticizing his policies, that's just wrong. He's a boy because he's a boy not because of his race. Get over your racial perceptions and judge him for his character and job performance.
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I'm German and Irish and both nationalities have influenced who I am.
I guess the same would hold true for Obama and his mixed lineage.
So do you play golf?
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And that is exactly what it is. A petty diversion of no consequence whatever.
How useful of Kramer to inform us that Michelle Obama's butt is as big as a VW. And to think, he did this without a teleprompter!
A petty diversion to what? Obama's massive debt and 10% unemployment?
Every time I've seen the topic brought up, your stupid ass has chimed in. It's a big consequence to you that somebody who claimed they had a gift for speech, can't speak without a teleprompter.
Michelle Obama is an unattractive woman. I don't care for her long arms, big gums, or gorilla like body in any way. But you are the one trying to distract from the issue now.
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I'm German and Irish and both nationalities have influenced who I am.
I guess the same would hold true for Obama and his mixed lineage.
So do you play golf?
Haven't played golf in about 10 years. I used to play a lot of golf. It takes up a lot of time and I don't know anybody that plays as often as Obama, except the pros, or wealthy retired people. People with full-time jobs don't have the time to play golf at the rate Obama plays. I don't vacation every other month either, and the people that do are retired, not full-time presidents.
Maybe Obama should spend more time with his wife and children instead of playing so much golf. If being president takes up a lot of time, and the rest of your time you golf, then what kind of father doesn't want to spend time with their children? Maybe he's competing with his father in how much time he spends with his kids.
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Did you take clients golfing with you when you did play golf?
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Did you take clients golfing with you when you did play golf?
No
but I know it used to be something that sales people did often. I know some retired sales guys that even belonged to country clubs for that reason. But in recent years less business is being conducted on the golf course because companies are getting cheap. Too much golf and too much teleprompter time isn't good perception for presidents these days. Sure, when we aren't fighting two wars, and not in a economic depression it might be overlooked but in the current climate Obama looks like he's milking his job for all the benefits while millions of people are unemployed, fighting wars, or just trying to keep their business afloat.
He's really very detached from Joe Six-pack American citizen, and seems to only care about his own agenda. Very self-centered and narcissistic. It strikes me that he just doesn't care or even grasp the ruination that he is causing to the USA. People like you should really stop defending and making excuses for him.
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People like you should really stop defending and making excuses for him.
Oh I'm not defending or making excuses for him. I think he is narcissistic and really doesn't have a feel for main street.
But what i am also doing is stepping back and taking a look at your arguments against him.
Some hold water, some don't.
Golf is a metaphor for networking. The game is now played in a different arena. Could be lunch, could be a chamber meeting, could be at the kids soccer practice.
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People like you should really stop defending and making excuses for him.
Oh I'm not defending or making excuses for him. I think he is narcissistic and really doesn't have a feel for main street.
But what i am also doing is stepping back and taking a look at your arguments against him.
Some hold water, some don't.
Golf is a metaphor for networking. The game is now played in a different arena. Could be lunch, could be a chamber meeting, could be at the kids soccer practice.
What really irritates me is the hypocrisy of the left. Remove Obama and slip Bush into his position for the last two years. The left would be unhinged at a golfing, vacationing, teleprompting, campaigning, detached, narcissistic, uncaring, un-connecting, unfeeling, incompetent guy. But since Obama is NOW president they praise and adore him and all his actions. And pretend like he's qualified to be president and he isn't. How did such an incompetent person become our leader? It is unbelievable!!!! I am 100% convinced that Obama is a Communist and sadly he appears to be a racist and hell-bent on redistributing money from middle class whites to minorities. I have concluded that fact because of what he says and does.
Last night Hannity had in interview with Bush. I am not a fan of Bush like I was at first. He did some things that really made me mad. But he has always comes across as TRULY a caring, honest, genuine man that is exactly as you see him. Not a phony, not a player and not deceptive. Warts and all Bush is a good man and I respect him and like him too. The interview was classic Bush. Anyone, left or right, that can't at least like the guy has a screw loose. But the left HATES him with a passion.
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Golf is a metaphor for networking. The game is now played in a different arena. Could be lunch, could be a chamber meeting, could be at the kids soccer practice.
A lot of people don't golf though. Did Gandhi golf?
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Did Gandhi golf?
Not that i know of, perhaps when he was in England. But he did eat lunch. And i bet his advisors, confidants and allies ate lunch with him.
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I agree that Bush will go down in history as a better President than Obama. And as a person i like him better. I think the biggest difference between the two is Bush shows humility.
I think McCain was a bad choice for the GOP and Obama was a bad choice for the Dems, Hillary would have done a much better job. But the people spoke. And so it goes.
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I agree that Bush will go down in history as a better President than Obama. And as a person i like him better. I think the biggest difference between the two is Bush shows humility.
I think McCain was a bad choice for the GOP and Obama was a bad choice for the Dems, Hillary would have done a much better job. But the people spoke. And so it goes.
McCain was bad (terrible) but would not have pushed through a Health Bill anything like Obamacare. It's tough medicine to take but I feel that Obama winning (in the long run) was better for the country than McCain. The country needed to see what a committed leftist is capable of doing and in so doing Obama reinvigorated the country to the right and revived the R Party from flat-line dead.
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The country need not look any further than California, to see just how bad the left & their "well intentioned" policies can get, in ruining a state & economy. A State that was once the beacon that nearly every other state wanted to be like. Now Companies, jobs, and the middle class can't get out fast enough
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The country need not look any further than California, to see just how bad the left & their "well intentioned" policies can get, in ruining a state & economy. A State that was once the beacon that nearly every other state wanted to be like. Now Companies, jobs, and the middle class can't get out fast enough
It scares me but I really don't want to move. We shall see what they do but I doubt it will makes matters any better. I can't even imagine or rationalize how and why Brown got elected along with the other Liberals that are charged with fixing the mess that they created. What kind of moron would have voted for Brown?
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A majority
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The country need not look any further than California, to see just how bad the left & their "well intentioned" policies can get, in ruining a state & economy. A State that was once the beacon that nearly every other state wanted to be like. Now Companies, jobs, and the middle class can't get out fast enough
It scares me but I really don't want to move. We shall see what they do but I doubt it will makes matters any better. I can't even imagine or rationalize how and why Brown got elected along with the other Liberals that are charged with fixing the mess that they created. What kind of moron would have voted for Brown?
What kind of job did Brown do as Mayor of Oakland?
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The country need not look any further than California, to see just how bad the left & their "well intentioned" policies can get, in ruining a state & economy. A State that was once the beacon that nearly every other state wanted to be like. Now Companies, jobs, and the middle class can't get out fast enough
It scares me but I really don't want to move. We shall see what they do but I doubt it will makes matters any better. I can't even imagine or rationalize how and why Brown got elected along with the other Liberals that are charged with fixing the mess that they created. What kind of moron would have voted for Brown?
What kind of job did Brown do as Mayor of Oakland?
I honestly don't know what kind of mayor he was but he's pretty much the same breed as what caused the mess we are in now and I believe one could trace back to his governorship as the beginning of all this wacky liberal stuff.
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Here's the most important points to Brown
- He facilitated the state employees to Unionize
- The State unions, and their pensions plans can be seen as the biggest drain on the state's budget, and getting worse
- The State's unions threw everything behind Brown
Forget what he did in Oakland, which from what I hear was pretty bad. Those bullet points above is everyine one needs to know, when watching this state sink more impressively than even the Titanic
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Here's the most important points to Brown
- He facilitated the state employees to Unionize
- The State unions, and their pensions plans can be seen as the biggest drain on the state's budget, and getting worse
- The State's unions threw everything behind Brown
Forget what he did in Oakland, which from what I hear was pretty bad. Those bullet points above is everyine one needs to know, when watching this state sink more impressively than even the Titanic
1. How so?
2. He was Governor from 75 to 82 how is he responsible for what came after him?
3. Did you expect them to support Whitman?
But I see you will determine what information if any is needed to form an opinion re: Brown.
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Here's the most important points to Brown
- He facilitated the state employees to Unionize
- The State unions, and their pensions plans can be seen as the biggest drain on the state's budget, and getting worse
- The State's unions threw everything behind Brown
Forget what he did in Oakland, which from what I hear was pretty bad. Those bullet points above is everyine one needs to know, when watching this state sink more impressively than even the Titanic
1. How so?
In 1978, Jerry Brown Signed The Dills Act, which gave Public Employees Collective Bargaining Rights which has since made them the most politically influential constituency in California. Greater than even the CTA
2. He was Governor from 75 to 82 how is he responsible for what came after him?
Never said he was, merely he was the Dr. Frankenstein to the Union monster, that has largely led to the fall of this once great state. And now the circle is complete
3. Did you expect them to support Whitman?
LOL....of course not. Need to get that bread buttered. Far more tax payers to soak. Not enough of "the rich paying their fair share", to take care of them union pensions
But I see you will determine what information if any is needed to form an opinion re: Brown.
What the frell?? Opinion was formed LONG ago, based on the current set of facts and reality, that permeates this state
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re:1
Whitman?s ad suggests unions are backing Brown because he provided state employees with generous benefits while governor in the late 1970s and early 1980s. When asked back up this claim, the Whitman campaign said Brown signed into law the Ralph C. Dills Act, which gave public employees collective bargaining rights, and charged that the Dills Act "resulted in billions in unfunded pension liability." That?s not true. The state?s staggering pension problems stem from numerous actions that occurred long after Brown left office.
The state?s pension system has an estimated deficit of more than $500 billion, according to an April study by graduate students at the Stanford Institute of Economic Policy Research. That study cited three reasons for the state?s pension problems: risky investments (which hurt the state funds during the recent stock market collapse), inconsistent contributions (including skipping contribution payments in years when investment returns were high), and generous benefits. As for those benefits ? the heart of Whitman?s charge ? the study did not even mention the Dills Act as a factor. Instead, the Stanford students ? and others, including Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger ? largely blame a bill (SB 400) signed into law in 1999, when Gray Davis was the governor.
Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research, April 2010: In 1999 California passed Senate Bill 400 (SB400), substantially raising benefit factors and lowering retirement ages for public employees (see Table 3). Based on a National Institute on Retirement Security report, average monthly public pension benefits in California were $2,008 in 2006, the eighth highest nationwide.
Joe Nation, an economist who teaches public policy at Stanford University and who served as advisor on the study, called SB 400 ?a remarkably generous bill? that passed with overwhelming support at the time. The state Senate approved the bill 39 - 0, and the Assembly 70 - 7. A former Democratic assemblyman, Nation told us: ?SB 400 was a bipartisan failure. There is enough blame to go around, but you really can?t tie Brown to this specific law.?
Schwarzenegger also blames the 1999 law and has been negotiating with the state unions to roll back the benefits provided by that law. In a July 8 press release, the governor discussed the problems caused by the 1999 law:
Office of the Governor, July 8: California has long provided generous pension benefits to its employees, but in 1999, the legislature and Governor Gray Davis significantly and retroactively boosted benefits after being assured by the California Public Employee?s Retirement System (CalPERS) that doing so would not cost ?a dime of additional taxpayer money.? But since the passage of that legislation, taxpayer spending on pension benefits has skyrocketed by more than 2000 percent (nearly 3000 percent in the General Fund) while spending on University of California and California State University, parks and recreation and environmental protection has either declined or failed to keep up with inflation.
Yes, the unions are backing Brown and they and others are prepared to raise and spend millions on his behalf, according to the San Jose Mercury News. The paper said in a Feb. 10 article that California Working Families plans to raise $20 to $30 million and spend 70 percent of that on helping Brown?s campaign. But the Whitman ad goes too far when it seeks to blame Brown for the state?s current pension problems.
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/07/whitman-unions-swap-misleading-charges-in-ca/ (http://www.factcheck.org/2010/07/whitman-unions-swap-misleading-charges-in-ca/)
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Yea....and? I already said that Brown wasn't responsible for the Pension mess.
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Yea....and? I already said that Brown wasn't responsible for the Pension mess.
You certainly said and i quote "he was the Dr. Frankenstein to the Union monster"
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Yea,......and? He was. What part are you having problems with in this one?? Have you already made up your mind I mean something that I don't?....like that I really mean Brown was responsible for what the Unions have metastasized into, despie the fact that I've just made it clear....for the 3rd time, that he wasn't??
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Yea,......and? He was. What part are you having problems with in this one?? Have you already made up your mind I mean something that I don't?....like that I really mean Brown was responsible for what the Unions have metastasized into, despie the fact that I've just made it clear....for the 3rd time, that he wasn't??
My understanding of Dr. Frankenstein was that he gave "birth" to the monster. Was that not your meaning?
The California State Employees Association and the State Employees Retirement Act were signed into law in 1931 by ... are your ready for this ... a Republican Governor James Rolph Jr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rolph).
Interesting guy, Rolph received considerable criticism for publicly praising the citizens of San Jose following the November 1933 lynching of the confessed murderers of Brooke Hart, while promising to pardon anyone involved, thereby earning the nickname, "Governor Lynch".
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Yea,......and? He was. What part are you having problems with in this one?? Have you already made up your mind I mean something that I don't?....like that I really mean Brown was responsible for what the Unions have metastasized into, despie the fact that I've just made it clear....for the 3rd time, that he wasn't??
My understanding of Dr. Frankenstein was that he gave "birth" to the monster. Was that not your meaning?
Rhetorically speaking, BINGO
The California State Employees Association and the State Employees Retirement Act were signed into law in 1931 by ... are your ready for this ... a Republican Governor James Rolph Jr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rolph).
And Brown signed the Dills Act, which gave Public Employees Collective Bargaining Rights (birth of the monster) which has since made them the most politically influential constituency in California.
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They were given bargaining rights in 1931.
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So you're trying to claim they were given bargaining rights......on top of their already existant bargaining rights? Care to try again? The act specifically grants state employees the right to belong to organizations that serve as their exclusive representatives in contractual negotiations over wages, hours, and other terms and conditions of employment. Why would there need to be another bill signed, if they already had that?? (http://www.lao.ca.gov/1995/010195_calguide/cgsgov2.html)
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What the Dills Bill did was enhance existing law and set up an arbitration board ..The PERB.
SB400 is the problem bill signed in 99 i believe by gray but passed with bipartisan support
You can't get true understanding of a problem and possible solutions from a 30 sec soundbite.
3 bullets points and a declaration that that is all you need to know is foolish at best and arrogant, almost elitist at worst.
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Then obviously, you're not paying attention. As a Therapist, what's key is getting to the root cause of a problem. The root cause in CA is the State Union pensions, bleeding this state dry. Not the only thing, simply the biggest, perpetuated by the Unions pretty much dictating policy with the control they have over the Dem Legislature. This power was largely born with the Dills Act, with the "enhancements" it provided. Not completely but largely. Nor is Brown responsible for the mutations that have occured since then to both the Unions and their state pensions. Merely the father to that which has become a grotesque cancer
The bullet points were merely a highlight to the root problems now facing this state. Not the only ones, merely the ones that will take this state down. The solutions have come and gone. There are none any longer, until things are so bad, the electorate finally does change party leadership. For those who believed the bulet points were it, and no other problems exist, is foolish at best, and ignorant at worst
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Here's the most important points to Brown
- He facilitated the state employees to Unionize
Not really . He signed a bill passed by the legislature.
- The State unions, and their pensions plans can be seen as the biggest drain on the state's budget, and getting worse
That is quite possible. Sounds like the legislature needs to do some budget tightening.
- The State's unions threw everything behind Brown
No surprise
Forget what he did in Oakland, which from what I hear was pretty bad. Those bullet points above is everyine one needs to know, when watching this state sink more impressively than even the Titanic
Apparently not the only thing you need to know. To think so would be ignorant.
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The unions do not control the votes of their members. They use secret ballots in CA just as everywhere else. You cannot blame a person for voting in their own interests.
Why should any union member vote for a zillionaire tycoon like Whitman?
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Why should any union member vote for a zillionaire tycoon like Whitman?
If she has a better track record of creating jobs and expanding business that would probably be a good reason. And in the process increasing tax revenues.
What the real problem is, is that public employee unions are now larger than private sector unions and public employment rolls are harder to shrink than private sector employment rolls based on supply and demand.
So it is understandable that unions like SEIU would back politicians that would be in favor of increasing government size, but it is surprising that they would criticize corporations and other special interest groups for backing candidate that are more likely to deliver legislature more favorable to their particular needs.
Face it that is the name of the current game. Buy favors with campaign donations.
What really has to happen is the game needs to change.
But i don't see that happening anytime soon.
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The unions do not control the votes of their members. They use secret ballots in CA just as everywhere else. You cannot blame a person for voting in their own interests.
The union controls the MONEY of its union members, thru their dues, which adds up to millions. It's those millions that help pay off Dem legislators to support legislation acutely favorable to them, regardless of how disastrous it is to the state, as a whole.
Wasn't it you complaining aout Meg trying to buy her governorship? The unions have largely bought themselves a state Government. And we are seeing the repercussions of it
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Again, the union cannot control the votes of the membership.
I imagine that most of the membership were in favor of the union donating to Brown as well.
Too bad that Whitman was unable to buy the governorship contrary to your wishes. It really cracks me up.
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Again, the union cannot control the votes of the membership.
To an absolute extent, no. But they can browbeat them, and as you've already indicated, the unions have managed to get Dems to pass the cushiest of pension deals thru the legislature, that not too many members are going to want to see dismantled. Regardless of how destructive it is to the state
Ergo, the unions have largely bought themselves a state government, analogus to how you're so giddy that Whitman couldn't
Too bad that Whitman was unable to buy the governorship contrary to your wishes. It really cracks me up.
Yea, how'd that Florida Governorship & Senate race pan out for yas? I'm really shedding a tear here for you Xo. I mean, I'm down to my last kleenix, in fact
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To an absolute extent, no. But they can browbeat them, and as you've already indicated, the unions have managed to get Dems to pass the cushiest of pension deals thru the legislature, that not too many members are going to want to see dismantled. Regardless of how destructive it is to the state
Not exactly true.
You might want to check the voting record for the bills in question. Seems to me they all passed with huge majorities which would indicate bipartisan support.
Please let the class know the results of your research, if different from my cursory glance
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Considering that the pension bills in question was passed with a 100% of the 2/3 majority of Dems, we'd need to see at least 1/2 of the GOP supporting such pension pushing. By all means, I'm willing to be shown how they passed, and by whom
The floor is open to your claim that they all passed with huge majorities
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SB839 passed 70 to 7 in the Assembly and 24 to 3 in the Senate.
http://www.calwatchdog.com/2010/10/19/brown-ignored-union-bills-warnings/ (http://www.calwatchdog.com/2010/10/19/brown-ignored-union-bills-warnings/)
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Wow...even worse than I thought