* 755

[The_Professor]

Steroids are against the law as evidenced by the BALCO investigation which Bonds is a major player.

As I recall, Bonds has not tested positive, nor has he been indicted. I think I'll wait until there is some evidence that Bonds broke the law before I consider him a lawbreaker. If you feel justified in deciding he is guilty even though he has not even been indicted, by all means, go right ahead. And by the way, what law banned steroids?

Bonds allegedly broke the rules (laws) of the game.

Allegedly. So far with no evidence to support the allegation.

You seem to think what he did was no more egregious than taking extra batting practice.

You're so close. If he broke the rules, then by all means, he should be punished. I think there ought to be some proof he broke them, however, before he is punished for doing so. In any case, I do think that using steroids in this sort of situation ought to be (did not say 'is, said 'ought to be') no more egregious than most of the other things players do to gain an edge, like getting in more practice, using hyperbaric chambers to heal faster, that sort of thing. I don't consider that cheating, and I don't see why using steroids should be cheating.

and in the meantime you notice i am not bashing MLB for Bonds actions, yet you seem to have no problem bashing the FBI for the actions of Rico and company.

There are some very important differences. One, whatever Bonds is doing, he is not acting in an official capacity on behalf of the MBA in a manner that imposes some action unfairly or unjustly on other people. Two, this is only baseball! Bonds's actions are not going to result in people going to jail for life. Bonds using or not using steroids is not even remotely comparable to the FBI framing four men for murder and then covering up the evidence for 30 years. It is (to use an apt metaphor) not even in the same ballpark.

And Michael Vick doesn't love dogfighting either. 

[Universe Prince]

Find me a better way of expressing those thoughts -- or their opposites -- and I'll listen, poser.

You're calling me a poser? Find you a better way to tell me to shut up because the powers that be have spoken? Um, no. I refuse to carry your dead weight for you.

[Universe Prince]

And Michael Vick doesn't love dogfighting either.

What the frell does Michael Vick have to do with this?

Doesn't anyone out there have a good argument in favor of a steroids ban? Is this really the best you can do?

[The_Professor]

And Michael Vick doesn't love dogfighting either.

What the frell does Michael Vick have to do with this?

Doesn't anyone out there have a good argument in favor of a steroids ban? Is this really the best you can do?

You are saying there is no EVIDENCE Barry Bonds took steroids. There is no EVIDENCE Michael Vick was involved in dogfighting either. THAT is the connection.

[The_Professor]

And Michael Vick doesn't love dogfighting either.

What the frell does Michael Vick have to do with this?

Doesn't anyone out there have a good argument in favor of a steroids ban? Is this really the best you can do?

The logic behid the steroid ban is that steroids can destroy your life. Ask the hundreds of athletes like Lyle Alzado about what happened to them. Plus, there is a concern about escalation, namely Player A takes them so Player B msut do so as well in order to be as competitive. So, now you have TWO players who are destroying their lives. Aklso, thereis the issue of traditon of the game. In the past, homeruns and such were earned without the use of artificial stimulants.

[BT]

One, whatever Bonds is doing, he is not acting in an official capacity on behalf of the MBA in a manner that imposes some action unfairly or unjustly on other people.

Apparently you are just babbling now.

Shouldn't that be MLB?

[Universe Prince]

You are saying there is no EVIDENCE Barry Bonds took steroids.

There may be evidence, but he hasn't tested positive for steroids, and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. If you know of any, please point it out.

There is no EVIDENCE Michael Vick was involved in dogfighting either. THAT is the connection.

Someone thinks they have evidence, because Michael Vick has been formally charged. Barry Bonds has not. End of (tenuous at best) connection.

In any case, I'm not saying Barry Bonds has never used steroids. He may have. He may use them currently. I don't know. I'm saying without some evidence, I'm not going to decide Bonds is guilty. I'm not sure why you seem to think there is something wrong with that.

[BT]

Perhaps this link will bring you up to speed


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Laboratory_Co-operative

[Universe Prince]

The logic behid the steroid ban is that steroids can destroy your life.

So have we forbidden athletes to drink alcohol yet? Forbidden sleeping around a lot? Sex with prostitutes maybe?

Plus, there is a concern about escalation, namely Player A takes them so Player B msut do so as well in order to be as competitive. So, now you have TWO players who are destroying their lives.

Why are we so sure they are destroying their lives? Yes, we can all point to examples of people who had problems due in part to steroid use. But how many players have used steroids without ending up as wife beaters? Do we have any stats on this? I'm not taking a hard and inflexible line here. Please, convince me that steroids should be banned. But I need more than anecdotes and cliches.

Aklso, thereis the issue of traditon of the game. In the past, homeruns and such were earned without the use of artificial stimulants.

Really? No one used artificial stimulants? Would you like to buy a bridge? Seriously though, players have access to all sorts of things these days that Babe Ruth never had. Computers and specialized muscle training, gloves designed to help a player catch the ball better, better helmets, et cetera. Shall we bring back the spitball? As I understand it, banning the spitball was controversial. Is it unfair to compare players who never had to try to swing at a spitball with those like Babe Ruth who did? Ty Cobb had a better than .300 batting average and he had to deal with spitballs. Was the tradition of the game been ruined by the elimination of the spitball? I think I read somewhere that many players, at the time, were against banning it.

[Universe Prince]

Shouldn't that be MLB?

Yes, it should.

[Universe Prince]

Perhaps this link will bring you up to speed

Read it already. No mention of a Barry Bonds indictment.

[BT]

He hasn't been indicted.

He has admitted to using the Clear Cream supplied by Balco, as has Sheffield, who trained at Bonds home during the off season, though both claimed they did not know it was steroid based.

Last I heard Bonds is being investigated for possible perjury in front of the grand jury. Kinda Libby lite.

[Richpo64]

The thing about Barry is that prior to his steroids use he was a member of the elite in baseball. He was one of the best of the best. His ego pushed him to steroid use. He knew others were using them and didn't want players of lesser ability to over shadow his greatness. So he took them, and we know the rest.

Steroids don't give you the ability to hit a Roger Clemens fastball or a Randy Johnson slider, but it does give you the ability to hit it farther. Steroids also allow you to recover faster from injury and over work. Bonds benefited from steroids in those two ways.

Barry Bonds will forever be associated with steroids and the record will be tarnished. The record will also be tarnished because Barry Bonds is a prick. My guess is he doesn't make it into the Hall of Fame on the first vote because of that. But he'll make it.

[Universe Prince]

Steroids also allow you to recover faster from injury and over work.

So do hyperbaric chambers, but those are not banned.

[BT]

So do hyperbaric chambers, but those are not banned

Aspirin is allowed. Heroin isn't. Go figure.