Canada is a Racist Nation

[Plane]

The minimum wage exports jobs .

How could it not?

Until most of the world works for just as much dime for time we chase all of the unskilled jobs overseas by makeing ourselves pricey.

So the first effedt of the minimum wage is unemployment on the bottom rung.

The next thing to happen is inflation , it happens pretty fast, the value a person can produce in an hour does rise as skill defvelops , but it does not rise by government fiat , a person that can work to produce five dollars worth of product when the minimum wage is five produces no more value when the minimum wage is six , so the devaluation of the currency is absolutely garrunteed and automatic.

Then Donald Trump , Plane Talker and everyone elese prone to take large mortgagues benefits , we borrowed money when an hour was five dollars and we pay it back when an hour is worth six ,,  happy happy ....


Unhappyly banks take the bite , they lent on the most narrow margin they could and for a lot of loans these margins disapear , if fees do not make up the diffrence FICA has to.

In the Third world new jobs show up as work that produces little vlue per hour become impossible to accomplish in the US , the process of inflation will bring Americans back into compeditiveness eventually but this has a lot of lag and there may be another rise in the minimum wage law at the time that Americans become affordable again.

In the developed World outside America there is a temporary benefit as their money becomes more effective at buying compared with ours , but they pass simular laws so they do not benefit as much as the third world.

The people who do not benefit , are the people who would have found a job at five dollars and do not find a job at six , untill inflation catches up to them and the six has the buying power of five again , then they might find a job , supposeing that the guy overseas isn't doing it better.

[Plane]

Perhaps you should just quit making spurious statements that you can't back up.

I would really miss that.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The hour that was $6.00 was worth considerably LESS than the hour that was $5.00 when the $5.00 was enacted.

There is a race to the bottom for lower wages, until al the workers possible are working under a tree in Cambodia for 15 cents a day.

[Plane]

The hour that was $6.00 was worth considerably LESS than the hour that was $5.00 when the $5.00 was enacted.

There is a race to the bottom for lower wages, until al the workers possible are working under a tree in Cambodia for 15 cents a day.

And in what respect does the minimum wage slow this "race for the bottom"? If anything it puts it into Cambodia sooner than natural.

In what respect could you deny one of my statements?

I listed nine effects of the minimum wage , pick one and show me how it isn't so.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Jeez.

Many, if not most minimum wage jobs in the US cannot be exported. The manufacturing jobs have already left. But there is no way that the burgerflipper at the local Burgerboy can be exported.

Anyway, if $5.00 was fair in 1990, then how is $6.00 after inflation not fair now? It is LESS MONEY.

Up there in Congress, there are many people working very, very hard to see that YOUR job is not busted doiwn a pay grade, and that the parts you repair are not exported to Zamboanga to be fixed for $2.00 a day. I doubt if many of these are actually the Republicans you so deeply worship, either.


To you, the Goverment is the problem. But you fail to recognize that to those of us who have not been paid by Uncle Sugar, YOU are the government, wasting vast ampounts of moola repairing obsolete aircraft that will never defend any of us from anything whatever, Preparing the Blue Angels for massive recreational wastes of Jato to wow the rubes and hicks. Sure, it's not your call to decide that some of the aircraft are useless, but we have to pay, don't we?

The mere fact that all the excess supply of weapons exist pretty much assure that there will be wars, wars, and more wars. If some dickhead had not stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, there woud hae been no 9-11. Hell, they allowed them to pass out Arabic Jesus books on the streets of Dahrein.

[Plane]

Jeez.

Many, if not most minimum wage jobs in the US cannot be exported. The manufacturing jobs have already left. But there is no way that the burgerflipper at the local Burgerboy can be exported.

Anyway, if $5.00 was fair in 1990, then how is $6.00 after inflation notg fair now? It is LESS MONEY.

Many of these jobs have already been exported by the mini wage law.

It isn't possible to find a radio or Television assembled in the US because we charge twice as much for our labor , or even more.

I do think I am worth more than a Chineese person in China , but ten time as much? Probly not really.

Many of the jobs that really cannot be lost to foreighners , like watressing and farm work are exceptions to the minimum wage law, Why exceptions?

Evenwith these some loss occurs to export with workers who get payed the sub mini wage here and spend it in less expensive homelands  so that evenburger flipping can in fact be exported .

One of the reasons that five dollars now is less money than it was then is INFLATION , which minimum wage does accellerate.


Now do you agree tha tI am worth ten times as much as a Chineese citizen?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Debating with you resembles conversations I have had with parrots.

I appreciate some of the posts you come up with, but economics is not your forte. I am sure you are better at something else, say, origami, perhaps even levitation.

Being as I have not observed you do anything in a professional capacity, nor have I seen your theoretical "Chineeese" adversary do anything either, I shall not speculate on the comparative value of either.

There are no economists of the left, right, or center that do not believe that there is a need for a modest rate of inflation in any economy to keep things going. 2% to 4% is the usual range.

In the USSR pre-Groby, there was little inflation for decades, but this also resulted in people havig to stand in line for hours just to horde toilet paper and toothbrushes when they were finally released to the public.

You can't blame inflation on the minimum wage without blaming it on companies having arbitrary rate hikes and executives, even hideously incompetent ones, like Roger Smith at GM, that got huge increases each and every year.

[Plane]

Debating with you resembles conversations I have had with parrots.

I appreciate some of the posts you come up with, but economics is not your forte. I am sure you are better at something else, say, origami, perhaps even levitation.

Being as I have not observed you do anything in a professional capacity, nor have I seen your theoretical "Chineeese" adversary do anything either, I shall not speculate on the comparative value of either.

There are no economists of the left, right, or center that do not believe that there is a need for a modest rate of inflation in any economy to keep things going. 2% to 4% is the usual range.

In the USSR pre-Groby, there was little inflation for decades, but this also resulted in people havig to stand in line for hours just to horde toilet paper and toothbrushes when they were finally released to the public.

You can't blame inflation on the minimum wage without blaming it on companies having arbitrary rate hikes and executives, even hideously incompetent ones, like Roger Smith at GM, that got huge increases each and every year.

I am doing my best to enlighten you , but you seem to lack the basic vocabulary to deal with an economic issue.

Yes there are Chineese fellows who do exactly my job, and these jobs used to be in Seattle where they paid more than I can get in Georgia.

It doesn't matter what the particular job is , it is just unreasonable to demand a minimum wage and expect it to not be a cause of unemployment in our country while there are people in countrys like China that can do the work and do not encumbe their people with minimum wage laws .

I would not do my job for much less , but inflation will cut my buying power and I can't stop it from happening.

There are several causes for inflation the rise of the minimum wage is one .

The people most benefited by the minimum wage are the millions outside our borders who get the jobs we slough off. The most benefited here are landlords who get to raise the rent and lower their mortgague cost.

Guys in McDonalds mostly get more than minimum already , but for those that do get the minimum they see the menu items rise at the same time so they arn't fooled long.

If I have to I will simplify even further , but I feel as if your ignorance isn't accidental , but is a result of refusal to accept some axioms of economics as true.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Yeah, whatever you say.

[Plane]

Yeah, whatever you say.

Good night , and thank you for the debate , I appreaciate you and your willingness to be generous with your thinking.

Yuo are fun to debate with ,almost, with no exceptions. 

[_JS]

The minimum wage exports jobs .

How could it not?

Let me first say that I am not a big fan of minimum wage, but not for the same reasons as you and the right-wing talking points that get repeated over and over again.

The answer to your question is that in the real world there are far more variables at play than an Econ 101 graph shows. Quite simply, reality has shown that increases in the minimum wage (or simply setting a reasonable wage floor) has rarely ever caused a massive loss of jobs nor has it caused massive inflation (which is often the other major talking point). There are hundreds of economics studies on this issue - that actually study real life scenarios - and typically there are quite a few variables involved.

The UK had this debate not too long ago and business (as you may imagine) was firmly against a wage floor. Yet, the doomsday scenario as given by the anti-minimum wage groups never materialized. Explanations as to why vary.

But the answer to your question is quite simple.

"How could it not?" Because it doesn't.

[kimba1]

hmm
what manufacturing jobs are minimum wage?
I not saying it doesn`t exist .
I just saying I`m drawing a blank right now
I just thought the bulk of outsourced jobs are fairly skilled jobs not something you`d want to give the lowest pay.
hell,even call center require talent.

[Plane]

The minimum wage exports jobs .

How could it not?

Let me first say that I am not a big fan of minimum wage, but not for the same reasons as you and the right-wing talking points that get repeated over and over again.

The answer to your question is that in the real world there are far more variables at play than an Econ 101 graph shows. Quite simply, reality has shown that increases in the minimum wage (or simply setting a reasonable wage floor) has rarely ever caused a massive loss of jobs nor has it caused massive inflation (which is often the other major talking point). There are hundreds of economics studies on this issue - that actually study real life scenarios - and typically there are quite a few variables involved.

The UK had this debate not too long ago and business (as you may imagine) was firmly against a wage floor. Yet, the doomsday scenario as given by the anti-minimum wage groups never materialized. Explanations as to why vary.

But the answer to your question is quite simple.

"How could it not?" Because it doesn't.

Yet it has already happened, there are very few assembly jobs left here because they all went there , and I don't see how your denial of this effect has any substance.

There is definately a lag , but thhere is no permanant benefit in having a wage floor.

 Some young people who can't produce enough value with their work to equal minimum wage get hired in training programs where their talents are developed , the company takeing a loss for a while on the prospect of gaining a skilled worker, but increaseing this cost does no thing other than decrease the slots a given company can open on its lower rungs.

The increase in buying power is of very short duration because the minimum wage increase itself is an inflation driver , the loss in job oppurtunitys is more long lasting.

[_JS]

Yet it has already happened, there are very few assembly jobs left here because they all went there , and I don't see how your denial of this effect has any substance.

It did not coincide with an increase in the minimum wage nor were most "assembly jobs" minimum wage jobs. I'm not denying that we lost manufacturing jobs. I'm stating the fact that it in no way correlates to a wage floor.

There is definately a lag , but thhere is no permanant benefit in having a wage floor.

There are pros and cons to a wage floor. It depends where it is set and how it is enforced.

Some young people who can't produce enough value with their work to equal minimum wage get hired in training programs where their talents are developed , the company takeing a loss for a while on the prospect of gaining a skilled worker, but increaseing this cost does no thing other than decrease the slots a given company can open on its lower rungs.

Try again with some clarity because I'm not seeing a point.

The increase in buying power is of very short duration because the minimum wage increase itself is an inflation driver , the loss in job oppurtunitys is more long lasting.

It depends upon many variables. The inflation risk has been very low in recent increases. The UK did not see it at all. Neither was it seen when President Clinton increased the minimum wage. This includes the infamous "lag." Nor were there correlating losses in job opportunities. Sorry Plane, I dislike the minimum wage as well, but your reasoning - though very basic Econ 101 - just does not jive with the real world. It makes for nice graphs on a High School notebook, but in real case-studies it just hasn't been true.

[Plane]

Yet it has already happened, there are very few assembly jobs left here because they all went there , and I don't see how your denial of this effect has any substance.

It did not coincide with an increase in the minimum wage nor were most "assembly jobs" minimum wage jobs. I'm not denying that we lost manufacturing jobs. I'm stating the fact that it in no way correlates to a wage floor.

Then what causes the disconnect ?

I don't see the complication , Worker in country A does the work for X worker in USA does the work for X+minimum wage , seems too simple to allow for much misundeerstanding.

Wages rise as a result of scarcity of labor even critical and difficult jobs pay little if the needed skill is common , raiseing the wage by fiat is just a means of devalueing the currency indirectly.

If McDonalds is forced to pay its workers more it is also forced to either accept a reduced margin or raise its prices .

Where is the complexity that allows this to be escaped?