Author Topic: Lesbo Confirmed to SC  (Read 6206 times)

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BT

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2010, 02:14:14 AM »
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Persecution of anyone for any sexual preference that does not harm other individuals is wrong, and I don't give a shit if the person doing the persecuting is Lenin, Stalin, Fidel Castro or Jesus Christ, it is still wrong.

Good. We are in agreement. Stalin is no better than the cowboys who bashed Matthew Shephard.

Plane

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2010, 02:17:17 AM »
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Persecution of anyone for any sexual preference that does not harm other individuals is wrong, and I don't give a shit if the person doing the persecuting is Lenin, Stalin, Fidel Castro or Jesus Christ, it is still wrong.

Good. We are in agreement. Stalin is no better that the cowboys who bashed Matthew Shephard.


Far better at getting away with it.

Michael Tee

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2010, 09:13:14 AM »
What exactly did Stalin do to gays, since we're on the subject and he's just been compared to the thugs who tortured and murdered Matthew Sheppard?  Seems like some pretty extreme accusations are being thrown around here with very little evidence in support.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2010, 10:47:15 AM »
Gays were not exactly well thought of in the 1950's by Hoover's FBI, either.

J. Edgar felt that cross  dressing was something that was well kept a secret. He looked awful in a pinafore, perhaps that was the reason.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 05:51:48 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2010, 12:53:27 PM »
What exactly did Stalin do to gays, since we're on the subject and he's just been compared to the thugs who tortured and murdered Matthew Sheppard?  Seems like some pretty extreme accusations are being thrown around here with very little evidence in support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia

Michael Tee

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2010, 05:59:38 PM »
Thank you, BT, for pointing out the article on Stalin and the gays.  Apparently, apart from criminalizing homosexuality (something that our "progressive" common-law countries had already done for decades before Stalin) there was no indication of any brutality, corporal or capital punishment decreed or executed against homosexuals.

I take it then that the unjustified smears of Stalin as a violent and deadly homophobe, comparing him to the goons who tortured and murdered Matthew Sheppard, will now be retracted.  I sort of recognized them as meaningless twaddle the instant I saw them appear, but I wasn't 100% sure and so thought I had better make some inquiries before giving out with my first impressions of the point you were trying to make.

BT

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2010, 07:21:18 PM »


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I take it then that the unjustified smears of Stalin as a violent and deadly homophobe, comparing him to the goons who tortured and murdered Matthew Sheppard, will now be retracted.


I think not. Unless you think a trip to the Gulags was a summer vacation:

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If American academia and media ever do start dragging Marxism's skeletons out of the closet, a whole new subchapter of gay-agenda Holocaust revisionism awaits invention to deal with Article 121 of the Russian Criminal Code, a statute instituted by Stalin in 1933, which of course is the same year that Hitler took power in Germany. Article 121 was a dictate not only outlawing homosexuality in the Soviet Union, but one meant to terrorize Soviet homosexuals against entertaining any of the fascist proclivities that brought Nazism to life in Germany. When the communist party's chief ideologue, Maxim Gorky, pronounced after Hitler's ascension to power in January, 1933, that "In order to eliminate fascism from Europe, one must first eliminate homosexuality from Europe," it is no mystery he was speaking for the Politburo and for The Boss. If Stalin couldn't eliminate homosexuality from Europe as a preemptive measure against fascism, he could certainly do that at home. Following Stalin's Article 121 edict, mass arrests of homosexuals and deportations to the Gulag were conducted in Russia, and the very mention of homosexuality in the press or in bureaucratic documents became nonexistent.

http://www.myjdl.org/misc/closet.shtml

Michael Tee

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2010, 08:46:02 PM »
<<Unless you think a trip to the Gulags was a summer vacation>>

No I don't think it's a summer vacation, neither do I think it equates to being tortured and beaten to death.  What an asinine insinuation.  WTF does summer camp have to do with any of this?

Moreover, I did not see any factual material indicating gays were sent to the gulag by Stalin.  The material was pure garbage.  I indulged you by reading halfway through that pile of unsubstantiated, ridiculous accusations and refuse to waste any further time on it.  If you can point to one sentence in the entire pile of illiterate shit that indicates that Stalin had anyone beaten and tortured to death for no reason other than being gay, please point it out to me.

Your source, JDL, is a fascist Jewish organization with zero credibility in any mainstream Jewish organization and in fact has been repudiated by many of them.  The article you quoted from was a good example of its credibility.  In the half that I was able to read, not a single accusation was backed up.

I am going to save you some effort.  There is, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that Stalin ever had anyone tortured and beaten to death merely because he was gay.  None.  Your comparison of Stalin to the torturers and killers of Matthew Sheppard is just pure bullshit, as I initially suspected. 

BT

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2010, 09:17:34 PM »
n 1933, Article 121 was added to the criminal code, for the entire Soviet Union, that expressly prohibited male homosexuality, with up to five years of hard labor in prison. The precise reason for the new law is still in some dispute.

Some historians have suggested that Stalin's enactment of the anti-gay law was, like his prohibition on abortion, an attempt to increase the Russian birthrate and build a better relationship with the socially conservative Eastern Orthodox Church. Some historians have noted that it was during this time that Soviet propaganda began to depict homosexuality as a sign of fascism, and that Article 121 may have a simple political tool to use against dissidents, irrespective of their true sexual orientation, and to solidify Russian opposition to Nazi Germany, who had broken its treaty with Russia.[14]

More recently, a third possible reason for the anti-gay law has emerged from declassified Soviet documents and transcripts. Beyond expressed fears of a vast "counterrevolutionary" or fascist homosexual conspiracy, there were several high profile arrests of Russian men accused of being pederasts.[15] In 1933, 130 men "were accused of being 'pederasts' ? adult males who have sex with boys. Since no records of men having sex with boys at that time are available, it is possible this term was used broadly and crudely to label homosexuality."[15] Whatever the precise reason, homosexuality remained a serious criminal offense until it was repealed in 1993.[15]

The Soviet government itself said very little publicly about the change in the law, and few people seemed to be aware that it existed. In 1934, the British Communist Harry Whyte wrote a long letter to Stalin condemning the law, and its prejudicial motivations. He laid out a Marxist position against the oppression of homosexuals, as a social minority, and compared homophobia to racism, xenophobia and sexism.[16]

While the letter was not formally replied to, Soviet cultural writer Maxim Gorky authored an article, published in both Pravda and Izvestia titled "Proletarian Humanism", that seemed to reject Whyte's arguments point by point. He rejected the notion that homosexuals were a social minority, and argued that the Soviet Union needed to combat them in order to protect the youth and battle fascism.[17]

A few years later, 1936, Justice Commissar Nikolai Krylenko publicly stated that the anti-gay criminal law was correctly aimed at the decadent and effete old ruling classes, thus further linking homosexuality to a right-wing conspiracy, i.e. tsarist aristocracy and German fascists.[15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Stalin

Michael Tee

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2010, 11:29:02 PM »
As I said, not even a shred of evidence that Stalin had anyone tortured and killed merely for being gay, not even in your own sources.

As I said, your comparison of Stalin with the torturers and murderers of Matthew Sheppard is pure bullshit.

Plane

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2010, 11:53:56 PM »
Stalin wanted homosexuality to be discouraged in law?

What was the usual punishment, what was the max?

BT

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2010, 03:21:01 AM »
The punishment was 5 years hard labor in the Gulags. And it was a complete reversal of the laws under Lenin.


Michael Tee

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2010, 11:17:55 AM »
Wasn't all that different from the criminalization of homosexuality in Canada under the Canadian Criminal Code, and that only ended when I was in grad school, long after Stalin had died.  Far as I know, "sodomy" and/or "buggery" were also criminal offences in the  U.S.A. until some time in the 1960s.  And five years in the gulag is a far cry from what Matthew Sheppard had to endure, so the comparison of Stalin to his (Matthew's) killers is absolutely nonsensical.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2010, 12:04:12 PM »
What would be wrong with just saying that laws in both capitalist an Communist countries were unenlightened and homophobic, and that some individuals were even worse than that?

I see no reason to praise any of them for varying degrees of unwarranted thuggery. I don't think homosexuality is really a matter determined by economics.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Lesbo Confirmed to SC
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2010, 02:08:22 PM »
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I don't think homosexuality is really a matter determined by economics.

Of course not. If Marxism were against homosexuality would Lenin have rescinded the law?