DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: MissusDe on October 27, 2008, 08:54:16 PM

Title: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: MissusDe on October 27, 2008, 08:54:16 PM
by David Reinhard, The Oregonian

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong

-- Buffalo Springfield

What is happening to us? What explains the boorishness, hate and even violence that increasingly mark our politics?

No, this isn't another prissy commentary on "negative" ads -- another high-sounding homily on how we ought to focus on "the issues," by which the writer means "the issues that I think voters should focus on." Nor is this a screed against demonstrations, however boisterous, or some young fools' lawn-sign stealing. There's no interest here in trampling on free-speech rights or spitting into the wind of what must be a rite of passage.

What troubles me -- what should trouble us all -- is the outbreak of largely liberal intolerance we've seen over the last few elections, and especially this one.

Something's happening here, and it's getting scary.

We've had two 23-year-old males here tossing Molotov cocktails to burn down Gene Scrutton's John McCain sign in the Sellwood neighborhood.

In Minnesota, graffiti messages ("u r a criminal resign or else") were spray-painted on the garage of U.S. Sen. Norm Coleman's St. Paul home.

A 23-year-old Michigan man, a Democrat, has admitted to plotting to detonate a homemade bomb in the tunnels near the Republican convention.

In the Washington, D.C., suburbs, a motel with a McCain sign on its lawn received threatening calls and a McCain-signed pumpkin patch was vandalized.

In central Florida, the Republican headquarters manager told police he believed that his home with two McCain signs was shot up because of his support for McCain.

It doesn't involve physical violence, threatened or real, but "The Daily Show" host Jon Stewart's "[expletive] you" to Sarah Palin in a recent comedy (?) act suggests how far we've gone in the age of the unhinged.

Yes, I know this stuff runs both ways. Here in Oregon, we had the hanging of an Obama cut-out at Newberg's George Fox University. The Washington Post reports that Obama signs in Alexandria, Va., were painted with racist epithets. We learned Friday that a McCain campaign worker's claim that she was beaten up and had the letter "B" cut into her face because her car had a McCain sticker was a hoax. Such deranged doings are just as appalling when it comes from the right, though my sense is that this hate-filled intolerance more often comes out of left field.

I also know we're a big country, and a few goof-balls do not a national trend make. But I don't think I'm committing sociology based on a few incidents. We're talking about more than a few beer-addled goofballs here.

A young friend of mine was working for the Bush campaign in 2004. One weekend he left his car outside a friend's Eugene house for safekeeping while he was out of town. Upon returning, he noticed the "W" sticker had been removed from his car. Hey, buddy, you were supposed to take care of my car, he said to his friend. Oh, yeah, his friend said, my father did that when he was here this weekend. He couldn't stand a student having a Bush sticker on his car.

Now, mind you, this wasn't a practical joke. The father was dead serious, and he wasn't some ne'er-do-well with a six-pack of beer aboard. He was an immaculately credentialed Portland professional who also headed a major community organization.

I love politics and public policy, but the ugliness, the anger, the coarseness and even the threats of violence I've experienced as a conservative opinion-writer in achingly "tolerant" Portland have contributed to my decision to leave the business after this election. My heart was starting to harden -- do we conservatives not have hearts, do we not bleed? -- and I didn't want that to happen.

I joked at first about some of it. When a reader sent me my column covered with dried feces, I looked on the bright side. He could have said he wouldn't .... on my column. I took comfort in the fact law officers visited the Iraq War foe (a peace advocate!) and the liberal critic (a Portland public school teacher!) who threatened my family. But the constant expletive-laced rants, the nifty Nazi-Hitler-German references, the holier-than-thou hate for any opposing view from the half-informed -- well, it's not what our public discourse should be about. It wasn't in a better age. If I sometimes responded in kind (and I did), forgive me.

What accounts for this rage? Maybe it's that so many feel the White House was stolen from them eight years ago. Maybe they just feel entitled to rule. (Dude, where's my country?) Maybe it's the Iraq War. Or George Bush, though many lefties have worked themselves into the same derangement syndrome over Palin. Maybe the cause is deeper. I don't know. I only know it's not a good thing for civil society.

Obama's not my candidate -- McCain is -- but, if he's elected on Nov. 4, Obama will be my president and I'll be happy to cheer two things. One, the fact that the United States has, at long last, elected an African-American president. Two, the possibility that Obama's election might deliver us from this nastiness. I think it's called the audacity of hope.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_reinhard/index.ssf/2008/10/days_of_rage_theres_something.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_reinhard/index.ssf/2008/10/days_of_rage_theres_something.html)
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: hnumpah on October 27, 2008, 11:58:39 PM
Quote
What troubles me -- what should trouble us all -- is the outbreak of largely liberal intolerance ...

Then:

Quote
Yes, I know this stuff runs both ways.

So, let's get rid of the 'largely liberal' bullshit and just call it plain old intolerance, or is the author intent on showing his?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Plane on October 28, 2008, 12:29:52 AM
Quote
What troubles me -- what should trouble us all -- is the outbreak of largely liberal intolerance ...

Then:

Quote
Yes, I know this stuff runs both ways.

So, let's get rid of the 'largely liberal' bullshit and just call it plain old intolerance, or is the author intent on showing his?

Everyone finds the slights which offend their own sensabilitys more memorable , I think that explains why both sides genuinely think that the other side is more atrocious , even though anyone with any sense would surely see that Liberals are getting out of hand.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: hnumpah on October 28, 2008, 12:40:00 AM
Quote
... anyone with any sense would surely see that Liberals are getting out of hand.

Sure, and the Republicans are lily white in all this.

You reckon them fellas that were out to kill Obama were lefty liberal scum?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: BT on October 28, 2008, 12:41:10 AM
Quote
You reckon them fellas that were out to kill Obama were lefty liberal scum?

My guess is they were FBI provocateurs.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Plane on October 28, 2008, 12:52:44 AM
Quote
... anyone with any sense would surely see that Liberals are getting out of hand.

Sure, and the Republicans are lily white in all this.

You reckon them fellas that were out to kill Obama were lefty liberal scum?


They strike me as being caught up in fantacy.

Leftist ? No
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on October 28, 2008, 10:09:16 AM
I think that explains why both sides genuinely think that the other side is more atrocious , even though anyone with any sense would surely see that Liberals are getting out of hand.

-------------------------------------------
The Neocons are the ones who have gotten out of hand when they elected Juniorbush as a Compassionate Conservative, which he is neither, and then proceeded to lie the nation into an endless war, squandered bazillions borrowed from the Chinese, and preside over the collapse of the economy.

The Liberals want to make this a better country. The Conservatives want to continue the concentration of wealth at the top by duping the religious nuts, racists and rubes into voting for them. Any one with any sense can see that the so-called "conservatives" seek to conserve nothing but their own power. They stand for nothing except protracted war, borrow and squander foreign policy and preventing this country from actually serving its citizens like other modern industrial powers.

Observe that after decades of trying to turn "Liberal" into as dirty word, millions upon millions of Americans want to see a Liberal president, and this is exactly what will happen.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Plane on October 28, 2008, 10:13:14 AM
I think that explains why both sides genuinely think that the other side is more atrocious , even though anyone with any sense would surely see that Liberals are getting out of hand.

-------------------------------------------
The Neocons are the ones who have gotten out of hand when they elected Juniorbush as a Compassionate Conservative, which he is neither, and then proceeded to lie the nation into an endless war, squandered bazillions borrowed from the Chinese, and preside over the collapse of the economy.

The Liberals want to make this a better country. The Conservatives want to continue the concentration of wealth at the top by duping the religious nuts, racists and rubes into voting for them. Any one with any sense can see that the so-called "conservatives" seek to conserve nothing but their own power. They stand for nothing except protracted war, borrow and squander foreign policy and preventing this country from actually serving its citizens like other modern industrial powers.

Observe that after decades of trying to turn "Liberal" into as dirty word, millions upon millions of Americans want to see a Liberal president, and this is exactly what will happen.


I do notice that Senator Barak Obama is one of the most Liberal persons to ever run for the US presidency , but I don't see him reminding us of that very often himself.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on October 28, 2008, 10:24:28 AM
I do notice that Senator Barak Obama is one of the most Liberal persons to ever run for the US presidency , but I don't see him reminding us of that very often himself.

Don;t hear much about McCain being a conservative, either.

The GOP spent billions of dollars to poison that word. Billions.

But people like what Obama stands for.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Plane on October 28, 2008, 10:25:31 AM


But people like what Obama stands for.

And what is that?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on October 28, 2008, 10:44:02 AM
But people like what Obama stands for.

And what is that?


====================
An end to warmongering.
Borrow and squander military adventurism.
Decent health care.
A demonstration to the world that we have ended racism as a driving force.
Responsible regulation of capitalism.
An end to bungling and corrupt dolts like Armey, Stevens, DeLay and Abramoff.

OBama is the anti-Juniorbush
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 12:13:11 PM
Come to the South.

I never see this belligerent group of hateful leftists. Down here the expletive-laced rants come from the right. The death threats to people who dare to claim that evolution is real, or war is wrong do not come from "liberal intolerance." The bitter racism (where did those white supremacists come from?) are not products of the sinister left-wing or by-products of some mysterious left wing media bias.

Watch and see which states John McCain wins handily. You'll note that South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, and Georgia are easily won by the right.

So while y'all are bitching, pissing, and moaning about the evil left and how nasty and brutal they are - remember that you can move here and live in a utopia where the brutality, racism, and nastiness of the right is a constant presence. Come to the Carolinas and you can write nasty death threats to Hispanic or Black leaders. It happens everyday.

Spare me this sanctimonious bullshit.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: BT on October 28, 2008, 12:21:04 PM
JS

Are you denying that some liberals have anger issues?

Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 12:29:50 PM
Not at all Bt.

Psychological issues know no political convictions.

What I'm saying is that the article presented is horribly one-sided.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Amianthus on October 28, 2008, 12:36:46 PM
Come to the Carolinas and you can write nasty death threats to Hispanic or Black leaders. It happens everyday.

I've been in Charlotte for nearly two years. Haven't seen any of those.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 12:43:58 PM
Come to the Carolinas and you can write nasty death threats to Hispanic or Black leaders. It happens everyday.

I've been in Charlotte for nearly two years. Haven't seen any of those.

I was listening to NPR just the other day and they ran a story on the leader of an Hispanic group in North Carolina that watches for any sort of hate crimes, but also helps find opportunities for Hispanic people. The lady that runs the group has received death threats nearly every day for the past few years, unfortunately they have gotten much worse recently and more specific.

Not seeing them, does not mean it does not happen.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: sirs on October 28, 2008, 12:45:27 PM
Come to the Carolinas and you can write nasty death threats to Hispanic or Black leaders. It happens everyday[/b].

I've been in Charlotte for nearly two years. Haven't seen any of those.

I lived in Columbia, SC for a year.  Me neither.  It included traveling back and forth from the more urbanized Columbia area to a much more rural area in Ridgeway.   
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: richpo64 on October 28, 2008, 12:46:33 PM
>>You don't see it in Jacksonville either, and it doesn't get any more consevative than here.<<

It could be that since the left hasn't been able to fool the citizens into voting for their candidates very often therefore we on the right think they are far worse than we are. So if we just compare the most recent presidents, Clinton and Bush, the left wins the nastiness contest hands down. The right attacked Clinton, not the country. Over the past eight years the left has arguably committed treason. The right has never done that. So IMHO, using that criteria the left is bare far more unscrupulous and hateful.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 12:57:50 PM
Come to the Carolinas and you can write nasty death threats to Hispanic or Black leaders. It happens everyday[/b].

I've been in Charlotte for nearly two years. Haven't seen any of those.

I lived in Columbia, SC for a year.  Me neither.  It included traveling back and forth from the more urbanized Columbia area to a much more rural area in Ridgeway.   

Hmmm.

You can measure the time I've lived in the South in decades, which includes two states and time spent in all eleven of the confederate states. I have a deep Southern drawl. I did not attend a prep school in New England or any Ivy League Universities like the current President...

But by all means I defer to the expert with one year in Columbia.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Amianthus on October 28, 2008, 12:58:36 PM
The lady that runs the group has received death threats nearly every day for the past few years, unfortunately they have gotten much worse recently and more specific.

Not seeing them, does not mean it does not happen.

First off, with no specifics, I find that hard to believe. She hasn't turned them over to the police? No investigation was done? Anybody can make such claims, I've seen many examples of claims that turned out to be not true. There was one posted in here just a few days ago. And for all we know, it's one guy writing each letter, mailing them once a day. Doesn't mean that there are hoards of people making death threats daily in the south.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Amianthus on October 28, 2008, 01:03:23 PM
Hmmm.

You can measure the time I've lived in the South in decades, which includes two states and time spent in all eleven of the confederate states. I have a deep Southern drawl. I did not attend a prep school in New England or any Ivy League Universities like the current President...

But by all means I defer to the expert with one year in Columbia.

I've lived in the south for decades as well, having first moved to North Carolina in 1977. My wife grew up along the NC coast, we were married in Belmont, and my daughter was born in Charlotte. I've also moved around a bit. I have a southern drawl when I speak to others from the south (which becomes a NJ nasal accent when I talk to someone from the northeast, and midwesterner twang when I talk to someone from the midwest, and a B'more accent when I'm talking to someone from the mid Atlantic).

Maybe I'm too close and can't see it, as Mikey says?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 01:06:17 PM
The lady that runs the group has received death threats nearly every day for the past few years, unfortunately they have gotten much worse recently and more specific.

Not seeing them, does not mean it does not happen.

First off, with no specifics, I find that hard to believe. She hasn't turned them over to the police? No investigation was done? Anybody can make such claims, I've seen many examples of claims that turned out to be not true. There was one posted in here just a few days ago. And for all we know, it's one guy writing each letter, mailing them once a day. Doesn't mean that there are hoards of people making death threats daily in the south.

Actually, the police are investigating.

By all means, go listen to the story on NPR if you think I'm lying.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 01:20:26 PM
Hmmm.

You can measure the time I've lived in the South in decades, which includes two states and time spent in all eleven of the confederate states. I have a deep Southern drawl. I did not attend a prep school in New England or any Ivy League Universities like the current President...

But by all means I defer to the expert with one year in Columbia.

I've lived in the south for decades as well, having first moved to North Carolina in 1977. My wife grew up along the NC coast, we were married in Belmont, and my daughter was born in Charlotte. I've also moved around a bit. I have a southern drawl when I speak to others from the south (which becomes a NJ nasal accent when I talk to someone from the northeast, and midwesterner twang when I talk to someone from the midwest, and a B'more accent when I'm talking to someone from the mid Atlantic).

Maybe I'm too close and can't see it, as Mikey says?

I love it here. I really do. The food is wonderful. The people are friendlier than most any other place I've ever been (Canadians are the closest). I love a great deal of the culture (no one from outside the South truly appreciates college football, grimace all you like - but it is true).

But there is a duality in the South as in no other place. On one hand a person can be extremely friendly and hospitable, on the other they may spout something as hateful as you've ever heard. Race is a big deal here and those who say otherwise are simply not telling the truth or they've never left the comfortable confines of the suburbs.

I don't know about California, New York, or elsewhere, but people here still purposefully move to all white school districts. There are people who still hate to see mixed racial couples and they are not afraid to let you know about it. I used to play basketball with a county judge's son whose father kept racist (klan) memorabilia in his garage. I've seen campaign ads, back when immigration was a big deal, that blatantly portrayed Mexicans in a terrible, cartoonish light.

So yeah...somewhere just underneath the surface, race plays a major role in Southern life. Perhaps it is a lot to expect for a region to change so quickly.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: sirs on October 28, 2008, 01:27:03 PM
You can measure the time I've lived in the South in decades, which includes two states and time spent in all eleven of the confederate states. I have a deep Southern drawl. I did not attend a prep school in New England or any Ivy League Universities like the current President...But by all means I defer to the expert with one year in Columbia.  

I must have missed the part where I referenced my being "an expert".  I'm sure Js can higlight that for us though.  I thought I had simply referenced my experience, for what it was worth, and at no time did I ever witness some "daily racist event"
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 02:06:56 PM
Did you notice where the white folks in Columbia live? The black folks? Did you notice who has the money?

Did you ever make a trip down to the Low Country?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: sirs on October 28, 2008, 02:30:52 PM
Yes, yes, never asked, and yes (though only as a vacation).  And all the while none of those examples of daily racist acts aimed at blacks or hispanics

I'm assuming of course you are the self proclaimed, "expert", now, correct?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: richpo64 on October 28, 2008, 02:36:56 PM
JS wrote:
>>Did you notice where the white folks in Columbia live? The black folks? Did you notice who has the money?<<

Notice they've voted democrat for decades and decades and they still live in the same area and still have no money.

You'd think they'd make that connection at some point.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: _JS on October 28, 2008, 03:01:48 PM
Yes, yes, never asked, and yes (though only as a vacation).  And all the while none of those examples of daily racist acts aimed at blacks or hispanics

I'm assuming of course you are the self proclaimed, "expert", now, correct?

Trying to have a discussion Sirs. I have lived here for quite some time, but nowhere did I claim to be an "expert."

I can see that there is little point in discussing the South with you. Hell, I can see that there is little point having a discussion with you at all. What is the point of this forum?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Amianthus on October 28, 2008, 03:45:12 PM
By all means, go listen to the story on NPR if you think I'm lying.

I didn't say that you are lying about the story being on NPR. CBS carried a story about a McCain campaign worker named Ashley Todd that was attacked and mutilated by an Obama supporter in Pittsburgh; does that make the story automatically true?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: sirs on October 28, 2008, 03:48:52 PM
Yes, yes, never asked, and yes (though only as a vacation).  And all the while none of those examples of daily racist acts aimed at blacks or hispanics  I'm assuming of course you are the self proclaimed, "expert", now, correct?

Trying to have a discussion Sirs. I have lived here for quite some time...

As has Ami, apparently.


...but nowhere did I claim to be an "expert."

YET....there you were with almost the knee jerk application of such to my post, simply because I never witnessed what you apparently witness on a daily basis.


I can see that there is little point in discussing the South with you. Hell, I can see that there is little point having a discussion with you at all. What is the point of this forum?

To debate issues without kneejerk defensive responses would be a start, to a more constructive forum.  Again, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them dumb, stupid, racist, and/or more superior (NOT, that that's what you have claimed, yet the inferrence, especially aimed at political figures/pundits you don't care for and who are not present to defend themselves, sure tends to be front & center
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: hnumpah on October 28, 2008, 04:11:45 PM
Quote
I thought I had simply referenced my experience, for what it was worth ...

Aw, gee. I've done that a few times, too. The response I usually get is a bit different than being called an expert, though.

BTW, from Ami:

Quote
I've also moved around a bit. I have a southern drawl when I speak to others from the south (which becomes a NJ nasal accent when I talk to someone from the northeast, and midwesterner twang when I talk to someone from the midwest, and a B'more accent when I'm talking to someone from the mid Atlantic).

Make sense now?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: sirs on October 28, 2008, 04:13:53 PM
No
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: hnumpah on October 28, 2008, 04:18:10 PM
Does to me. When I described the same experience during a discussion about Obama's accent, I was accused of simply using that to 'rationalize' his behavior. Now that you've seen Ami describe it, maybe you'll believe it.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: sirs on October 28, 2008, 04:24:04 PM
Yo H, if you recall, given your disposition in disliking McCain/Palin so VERY much more than Obama/Biden, and your quick to response defense of Obama via your response then, one could EASILY presume it to have been a rationalization effort.  And IIRC, I think after the conversation I could then give you the benefit of the doubt.  But your continued efforts at dissing McCain/Palin, in the absense of such dissing in the direction of Obama/Bide, keeps reinforcing the earlier premice.  You really want to go down that road again?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Michael Tee on October 28, 2008, 04:30:36 PM
<<So while y'all are bitching, pissing, and moaning about the evil left and how nasty and brutal they are - remember that you can move here and live in a utopia where the brutality, racism, and nastiness of the right is a constant presence. Come to the Carolinas and you can write nasty death threats to Hispanic or Black leaders. It happens everyday.

<<Spare me this sanctimonious bullshit.>>

Excellent response, _JS.  I've seen the videos of people at McCain-Palin rallies, unmistakeably spilling over and bursting at the seams with hate, even for the man with the camera interviewing them.  I noted the skinhead neo-Nazis plotting to kill and decapitate blacks, culminating with an attempt on Obama's life (<<Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of Helena-West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond.>>)  These boys are NOT liberals or leftists. 

The sniping from the left (moron!  unqualified!  war criminal!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wastrel!) is, even as sniping, less vicious than what you hear from the right (anti-American!  traitor! terrorists!) and that's without even factoring in the death threats ("Kill him!"  and now the plot from these two neo-Nazis to kill Obama and other blacks.)

It's absolutely absurd to claim that the prime responsibility for cultivating dangerous hatreds in this race lies mainly, as always, on the side to the right of the centre.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Plane on October 28, 2008, 08:06:39 PM
It happens everyday.



How do you stand it.


Exaggerating like that.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: hnumpah on October 29, 2008, 12:16:44 AM
Quote
Yo H, if you recall, given your disposition in disliking McCain/Palin so VERY much more than Obama/Biden, and your quick to response defense of Obama via your response then, one could EASILY presume it to have been a rationalization effort.  And IIRC, I think after the conversation I could then give you the benefit of the doubt.  But your continued efforts at dissing McCain/Palin, in the absense of such dissing in the direction of Obama/Bide, keeps reinforcing the earlier premice.  You really want to go down that road again?

You're right, I do dislike McCain/Palin much more than I do Obama and whatsisname. So friggin' what? If you don't like my political preferences, or my taste in cartoons, or anything else, get over it. There's no reason I should have to look over my shoulder every time I post something to see what you are going to find to bitch about next. That's one of the reasons I refuse to go out of my way to provide answers for you - that only leads to more bullshit, and I'm fed up with it. I give you a simple explanation for something that has nothing to do with politics, and next thing I know you are practically accusing me of making it up just to rationalize something away. Is it any wonder I despise you as much as Bush or McCain? Did you ever stop to think that if you changed your approach to people you disagree with, they might actually take time to talk to you, and you might actually learn something, or they might be more prone to listen to you? Try it sometime. Keeping your nose in the air and approaching everything confrontationally will only get you so far.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Plane on October 29, 2008, 12:23:12 AM
<<So while y'all are bitching, pissing, and moaning about the evil left and how nasty and brutal they are - remember that you can move here and live in a utopia where the brutality, racism, and nastiness of the right is a constant presence. Come to the Carolinas and you can write nasty death threats to Hispanic or Black leaders. It happens everyday.

<<Spare me this sanctimonious bullshit.>>

Excellent response, _JS.  I've seen the videos of people at McCain-Palin rallies, unmistakeably spilling over and bursting at the seams with hate, even for the man with the camera interviewing them.  I noted the skinhead neo-Nazis plotting to kill and decapitate blacks, culminating with an attempt on Obama's life (<<Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of Helena-West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond.>>)  These boys are NOT liberals or leftists. 

The sniping from the left (moron!  unqualified!  war criminal!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wastrel!) is, even as sniping, less vicious than what you hear from the right (anti-American!  traitor! terrorists!) and that's without even factoring in the death threats ("Kill him!"  and now the plot from these two neo-Nazis to kill Obama and other blacks.)

It's absolutely absurd to claim that the prime responsibility for cultivating dangerous hatreds in this race lies mainly, as always, on the side to the right of the centre.

So these two tonsured idiots from Tennesee are more harmfull than Bill Ayers?

How so?
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: sirs on October 29, 2008, 01:09:10 AM
Quote
Yo H, if you recall, given your disposition in disliking McCain/Palin so VERY much more than Obama/Biden, and your quick to response defense of Obama via your response then, one could EASILY presume it to have been a rationalization effort.  And IIRC, I think after the conversation I could then give you the benefit of the doubt.  But your continued efforts at dissing McCain/Palin, in the absense of such dissing in the direction of Obama/Bide, keeps reinforcing the earlier premice.  You really want to go down that road again?

You're right, I do dislike McCain/Palin much more than I do Obama and whatsisname. So friggin' what?  

So what then, is that it's not so far fetched an idea to see a rationalization effort in defense of Obama.  But no, you have to go all uber defensive, decrying how would anyone think such of you.  Just not possible, and anyone who'd dare think that gets the wrath of H thrown at them

As I said, if you had payed attention and shown even the slightest amount of objectivity, you could see how that'd be easy to have assumed.  That's what friggin what


If you don't like my political preferences, or my taste in cartoons, or anything else, get over it. There's no reason I should have to look over my shoulder every time I post something to see what you are going to find to bitch about next.  

LOL....not like you doing the same of course, of mine.  Priceless.  Look H, no one's asking you to be looking over your shoulders.  You really need to get over this kneejerk defensive complex you have with me.   Gads, the simple question of who called you a liar was like sqeezing water from a rock.  This is a debate forum.  If you post responses (or toons) that someone would like better clarity with, or would like to challenge their premice, or yes, *gasp* look to point out your inconsistencies, try not to have a caniption.  You're not a victim, so either please answer the query with civility & substance.

Or don't

Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Michael Tee on October 29, 2008, 01:34:47 PM
<<So these two tonsured idiots from Tennesee are more harmfull than Bill Ayers?>>

Only one's from Tennessee, the other one's from Arkansas.  (Tennessee?  Arkansas??  Who woulda thunk?)

Nahh, how could they be more harmful than Bill Ayers, the real source of all the evil in the Western Hemisphere?  They're obviously just a couple a high-spirited, patriotic American kids.  I say, give 'em back their guns and ammo and let 'em go.  This isn't a fascist police state, is it?

<<How so?>>

I'm trying to figure that out myself. Is it possible they could independently work out the critical mass of U235 needed for a crude fission bomb and then develop an effective triggering mechanism?  No, first they'd have to learn how to read and write.  How about firing high-powered weaponry into an all-black public school?  or at a black Presidential candidate, Barack Obama for example?  That'd work.  There's your answer right there.
Title: Re: Days of rage: There's something happening here
Post by: Plane on October 29, 2008, 04:14:59 PM
<<So these two tonsured idiots from Tennesee are more harmfull than Bill Ayers?>>

Only one's from Tennessee, the other one's from Arkansas.  (Tennessee?  Arkansas??  Who woulda thunk?)

Nahh, how could they be more harmful than Bill Ayers, the real source of all the evil in the Western Hemisphere?  They're obviously just a couple a high-spirited, patriotic American kids.  I say, give 'em back their guns and ammo and let 'em go.  This isn't a fascist police state, is it?

<<How so?>>

I'm trying to figure that out myself. Is it possible they could independently work out the critical mass of U235 needed for a crude fission bomb and then develop an effective triggering mechanism?  No, first they'd have to learn how to read and write.  How about firing high-powered weaponry into an all-black public school?  or at a black Presidential candidate, Barack Obama for example?  That'd work.  There's your answer right there.


So far they are guilty of seriously foolish talk.

Bill Ayers is also guilty of this , and also of building actual bombs which actually caused deaths.

Actually I hope that the prosicution of these guys is more successfull than the prosicution of Bill Ayers was , just because BA beats the rap doesn't mean that haveing his type running around loose is a good idea.