Rah, rah, Ron Paul?

[Xavier_Onassis]

From xoverboard.com:

Dear God, protect me from your followers

I'm fairly confident the biggest detriment to the Ron Paul campaign is the people who support him.

I actually don't have a side to pick in this apparent Dana Goldstein vs. Glenn Greenwald vs. Andrew Sullivan argument, I just find the reaction from the PaulBots on all sides amazing. These people really are the quintessential Libertarians- all they seem to do is rise up, en masse, and yell about how everyone on the planet is wrong except them.

I am confused how the Paul people seem to think this is actually a way to win an election. It's as if McDonald's, instead of printing coupons in the newspaper or airing ads on television, devoted their entire marketing budget to spamming every website in America about how unfair it is that not enough people are eating at McDonald's, that you're stupid for not finding McDonald's delicious, and that your dislike of McDonald's is a sign of your unwavering support for Israel.

(Just for the record, the average TAPPED post garners maybe 10, 20 comments on a good day. There's over 100 on Dana's post at the time of writing this, almost all from Ron Paul fanatics. Attacking a subject based on people comenting on their behalf is usually a cheap shot, but given how obvious it is here that someone on a Paul site dispatched the winged monkeys, I say enjoy this voluntary window into the crazy.)
Posted by August J. Pollak at 6:59 AM

[Lanya]

This is an article by Tucker Carlson in The New Republic, about his campaign trip with Ron Paul.  Interesting and funny at times.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=83665295-1de6-4571-af9c-0a90f6d1fde0

[Plane]

This is an article by Tucker Carlson in The New Republic, about his campaign trip with Ron Paul.  Interesting and funny at times.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=83665295-1de6-4571-af9c-0a90f6d1fde0

That is a good article.

For people as self displined as Ron Paul there is no disadvantage to having every freedom.
What about people who are accustomed to leaning on the fences that society and government erect ?

Removeing the limits that they lean on makes them fall down.

Perhaps if most of us were very self disaplined we could get by with much less government.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Perhaps if most of us were very self disaplined we could get by with much less government.

=============================================================
The problem is that a government is always needed to define limits of how far your liberty goes.

Do you have the right to sell Chinese goods as designer European brands?

Do you have the right to sell copied CD's or DVD's?

Should you have the right to mint gold and silver coins with the correct weight of the metal stamped clearly on them?

[BT]

Shame about Air Force Amy. Paul may be non judgmental according to Carlson but apparently his staff is.
You have this example then the newsletter example and one has to wonder if a pattern forms.

[Plane]

Perhaps if most of us were very self disaplined we could get by with much less government.

=============================================================
The problem is that a government is always needed to define limits of how far your liberty goes.

Do you have the right to sell Chinese goods as designer European brands?

Do you have the right to sell copied CD's or DVD's?

Should you have the right to mint gold and silver coins with the correct weight of the metal stamped clearly on them?

If I were buying from shopkeepers as full of integrety as Ron Paul, where would this problem arise?

It is not forbidden to be better than the demand of the law.

If the law were much more loose , I would be slightly more loose.

[Lanya]

Shame about Air Force Amy. Paul may be non judgmental according to Carlson but apparently his staff is.
You have this example then the newsletter example and one has to wonder if a pattern forms.

I feel bad for her, too. I understand his staffer's concern, but still I wish he would have let her get her photo taken with Ron.

[Universe Prince]

Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border.

And then there is this, from the page to which you linked:

Q: You voted to support that 700-mile fence along the border with Mexico. Is there a need for a similar fence along the border with Canada?

PAUL: No. The fence was my weakest reason for voting for that, but enforcing the law was important, and border security is important.

So the fence ain't really a big deal for him.

[Universe Prince]

More on Paul:

Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul has received a $500 campaign donation from a white supremacist, and the Texas congressman doesn't plan to return it, an aide said Wednesday.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/19/paul-to-keep-donation-from-white-supremacist/

Does he need to return it? I would guess by this time that it's been spent. Why should Paul send someone else's $500 to a white supremacist group. That would be stupid.

CAVUTO: There are reports, sir, that your campaign has received a $500 campaign donation from a white supremacist in West Palm Beach. And your campaign had indicated you have no intention to return it. What are you going to do with that? PAUL: It is probably already spent. Why give it back to him and use it for bad purposes? And I don't even know his name. I never heard of it. You know, when you get 57,000 donations a day, are we supposed to screen them and find out their beliefs? He sent the money for my beliefs. And if he promoting my viewpoints and my attitudes, why give it back to him if he has bad viewpoints? And I don't endorse anything that he endorses or what anybody endorses. They come to me to endorse freedom and the Constitution and limited government. So, I see no purpose for me to start screening everybody that sends me money. I mean, it is impossible to do it. It is a ridiculous idea that I am supposed to screen these people. CAVUTO: All right. So, Congressman, when you find out that it's this Don Black who made the donation, and who ran a site called Stormfront, White Pride Worldwide, now that you know it, now that you're familiar after the fact, you still would not return it? PAUL: Well, if I spent his money and I took the money that maybe you might have sent to me and donate it back to him, that does not make any sense to me. Why should I give him money to promote his cause? That doesn't make any sense to me. --http://www.reason.com/blog/show/124032.html

Morris ran numerous attacks, including publicizing issues of the Ron Paul Survival Report (published by Paul since 1985) that included derogatory comments concerning race and other politicians.[49][50] Alluding to a 1992 study finding that "of black men in Washington ... about 85 percent are arrested at some point in their lives",[51][52] the newsletter proposed assuming that "95% of the black males in Washington DC are semi-criminal or entirely criminal", and stated that "the criminals who terrorize our cities ... largely are" young black males, who commit crimes "all out of proportion to their numbers".[53][54]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#1996_campaign_controversy

Interesting that you failed to quote the paragraph that immediately follows that one. Since you're either too lazy to do so or too damn busy trying to badmouth Ron Paul to care, I'll do it for you.

In 2001, Paul took "moral responsibility" for the comments printed in his newsletter under his name, telling Texas Monthly magazine that the comments were written by a ghostwriter and did not represent his views. He said newsletter remarks referring to U.S. Representative Barbara Jordan (calling her a "fraud" and a "half-educated victimologist") were "the saddest thing, because Barbara and I served together and actually she was a delightful lady."[55] The magazine defended Paul's decision to protect the writer's confidence in 1996, concluding, "In four terms as a U.S. congressman and one presidential race, Paul had never uttered anything remotely like this."[30] In 2007, with the quotes resurfacing, the New York Times Magazine concurred that Paul denied the allegations "quite believably, since the style diverges widely from his own."[7]

Sheesh, BT. I don't know what the hell you have against Ron Paul, but I really would expect you, Mr. Wait-till-all-the-facts-are-in, to be a bit more fair. Are you so offended by and/or scared of Ron Paul that feel you need to denigrate him?

[Universe Prince]

all they seem to do is rise up, en masse, and yell about how everyone on the planet is wrong except them.

And that makes them different from most other members of other political camps how, exactly?

[Universe Prince]

This is an article by Tucker Carlson in The New Republic, about his campaign trip with Ron Paul.

I liked this paragraph in particular:

The first time I heard Paul talk about monetary policy, I'd felt like a hostage, the only person in the room who didn't buy into the program. Then, slowly, like so many hostages, I started to open my mind and listen. By the time we got to Reno, unfamiliar thoughts were beginning to occur: Why shouldn't we worry about the soundness of the currency? What exactly is the dollar backed by anyway? And, if the gold standard is crazy, is it really any crazier than hedge funds? I'd become Patty Hearst, ready to take up arms for the cause, or at least call my accountant and tell him to buy Krugerrands. I looked over at Dennis and the girls. They looked like they might be having the same thoughts.

[Universe Prince]

What about people who are accustomed to leaning on the fences that society and government erect ?

They'll get used to leaning on fences made by someone else.

[BT]

So the fence ain't really a big deal for him.

He voted for it.

It certainly wasn't a deal breaker .

Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
Vote to pass the bill that would require hospitals to gather and report information on possible illegal aliens before hospitals can be reimbursed for treating them. The bill would also make employers liable for the reimbursements if an undocumented employee seeks medical attention, unless the employer meets particular conditions for exemption. The bill would specify that hospitals aren't required to provide care to undocumented aliens if they can be transported to their home country without a significant chance of worsening their condition.
Reference: Undocumented Alien Emergency Medical Assistance Amendments; Bill HR 3722 ; vote number 2004-182 on May 20, 2004

http://www.issues2000.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm

[Universe Prince]

Do you have the right to sell Chinese goods as designer European brands?

That would be fraud. No one is arguing that we end laws against fraud.

Should you have the right to mint gold and silver coins with the correct weight of the metal stamped clearly on them?

Yes.

[Universe Prince]

He voted for it.

Apparently. Not exactly campaigning on it though.

Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.

I'll say again what I said before: As I recall, you're not one of the open border advocates, so I find it a little disingenuous that you're using this "foreigners are scary" argument as an objection to Ron Paul.