DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Brassmask on December 05, 2006, 06:29:28 PM
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(http://wonkette.com/images/thumbs/cf1ae679901e44dc70a2471dc89e1ca9.jpg)
TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Former President George H.W. Bush broke down in tears as he cited his son, Gov. Jeb Bush, as an example of leadership.
Bush was addressing lawmakers, his son's top administrators, and state workers gathered in the House chamber Monday for the last of the governor's leadership forums.
He said he was proud of how his son handled losing the 1994 governor's race to popular incumbent Democrat Lawton Chiles and vaguely referred to dirty tricks in the campaign.
"He didn't whine about it. He didn't complain," the former president said before choking up. As he tried to continue, he let out a sob and put a handkerchief to his face. When he spoke again, his words were broken up by pauses as he tried to regain composure.
I don't want to poke fun at the guy. He's feeling his emotions and his history is catching up with him. His guilt must be enormous. All those years of promulgating evil in the world are catching up to him. Yes, his family wound up beating those bastards the Kennedy's but now he must look back and see how horrible the price was.
Watching it could almost make you feel sorry for him. Unfortunately, people will remember how he had a hand in JFK's death.
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Unfortunately, people will remember how he had a hand in JFK's death.
prove it. and try to do better than tenuous links at best.
You can tie Kerry closer to oswald than you can Bush.
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Six degrees of sepration?
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Six degrees of sepration?
The picture of oswald with the rifle was taken in Kerry's cousins backyard.
His wife was staying with them. Do a lookup on Ruth Paine or Payne.
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Maybe he cried because he had one OK son , one crooked son and one evil prick son.
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The picture of oswald with the rifle was taken in Kerry's cousins backyard. His wife was staying with them.
OUCH
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I feel bad for him. W has ruined the Bush name. Jeb is never going to get a chance to show what he could have done for the country. I'd cry too, if I were Poppy.
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I feel bad for him. W has ruined the Bush name. Jeb is never going to get a chance to show what he could have done for the country. I'd cry too, if I were Poppy.
Oh, that's why he was crying, right Lanya? You're convinced it's "W's" fault, you & Brass. Couldn't POSSIBLY be how proud he is of his sons now, could it, Jeb specifically in this instance. But no, you don't hate Bush, do you
IMHO, you've really hit a new low, Lanya :-[
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I feel bad for him. W has ruined the Bush name. Jeb is never going to get a chance to show what he could have done for the country. I'd cry too, if I were Poppy.
Oh, that's why he was crying, right Lanya? You're convinced it's "W's" fault, you & Brass. Couldn't POSSIBLY be how proud he is of his sons now, could it, Jeb specifically in this instance. But no, you don't hate Bush, do you
IMHO, you've really hit a new low, Lanya :-[
If a deluded Bushidolator thinks she has hit a new low, it MUST be a new height! You go, girl!
;D
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If a deluded Bushidolator thinks she has hit a new low, it MUST be a new height! You go, girl!
;D
We already know how subterranian you are knute. That was never any secret. It would seem however, that Lanya is aspiring to reach your level
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh!
Ad hominim , its like my Kriptonite!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh!
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I don't see what I said that was bad. I do feel bad for him. He IS proud of Jeb. I think he might be sad because Jeb now won't have a chance to be president. Evidently that was "the plan."
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I don't see what I said that was bad. I do feel bad for him. He IS proud of Jeb. I think he might be sad because Jeb now won't have a chance to be president. Evidently that was "the plan."
Good greif?
You would be dissapointed in your son the Govenor?
I am always happy to hear that my children have found honest work.
Oh , ...............
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I don't see what I said that was bad. I do feel bad for him. He IS proud of Jeb. I think he might be sad because Jeb now won't have a chance to be president. Evidently that was "the plan."
because apparently your hatred for the "W" is so overt, you somehow can mindread "poppy" and conclude how stricken he is that his son couldn't possibly make a run for president. All because of that bastard, "W". Again, couldn't possibly be tears of joy at how proud he is of his son Jeb. It's all about "W", and it's all his fault. That's beyond arrogance Lanya, even for what I thought you would ever reach. Brass, yea, Knute, well, that goes without saying, but you? I thought wrong apparently :(
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Unfortunately, people will remember how he had a hand in JFK's death.
prove it. and try to do better than tenuous links at best.
You can tie Kerry closer to oswald than you can Bush.
Oswald didn't kill anyone.
And Bush 41 was working for the CIA and was briefed by Hoover on anti-Castro Cubans (that Bush himself was in charge of!). They were daring Hoover to say the wrong thing.
Bush 41 ran weapons, boats and training out of his Zapata base. He was best buds with Bissell who planned the whole thing.
Oswald was a patsy and possibly an American hero who was more than likely out to stop the assassination by surveiling the operatives who were planning it.
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Unfortunately, people will remember how he had a hand in JFK's death.
prove it. and try to do better than tenuous links at best.
You can tie Kerry closer to oswald than you can Bush.
Oswald didn't kill anyone.
And Bush 41 was working for the CIA and was briefed by Hoover on anti-Castro Cubans (that Bush himself was in charge of!). They were daring Hoover to say the wrong thing.
Bush 41 ran weapons, boats and training out of his Zapata base. He was best buds with Bissell who planned the whole thing.
Oswald was a patsy and possibly an American hero who was more than likely out to stop the assassination by surveiling the operatives who were planning it.
If he didn't kill anyone , then he was possibly played for a patsy by someone.
Who took that picture ?
Why take such a picture?
That Gun was never much of a great gun to be proud of , what is the innocent motive that caused this pose with it?
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Six degrees of sepration?
The picture of oswald with the rifle was taken in Kerry's cousins backyard.
His wife was staying with them. Do a lookup on Ruth Paine or Payne.
A. That may be Oswald's head in that picture but that's about as far as it goes. Someone else had their picture taken back there and the pic with Oswald's face is fake.
Ruth Paine's husband, Bill, was a CIA operative and more than likely helped frame Oswald. Paine's family also had CIA ties I believe.
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I feel bad for him. W has ruined the Bush name. Jeb is never going to get a chance to show what he could have done for the country. I'd cry too, if I were Poppy.
Oh, that's why he was crying, right Lanya? You're convinced it's "W's" fault, you & Brass. Couldn't POSSIBLY be how proud he is of his sons now, could it, Jeb specifically in this instance. But no, you don't hate Bush, do you
IMHO, you've really hit a new low, Lanya :-[
You support a "president" who has sent nearly 3000 Americans to their deaths for nothing but money and over half a million Iraqis to ddeath for the same reason and you have the unmitigate gall to sit there and say WE'VE hit a new low?
The only reason you haven't hit a new low is because there is no new low for you to sink to, sirs. Your defence of the Iraq war and Bush's constant lies is criminal at worst, despicable at best.
Lanya's hypothesis in even more polite than my post. Personally, I regret not having gone for the cheap shots in my post on Poppy. George De Mohrenshildt's good buddy. Skull N Bones brother of the Bay of Pigs designers and JFK murderers. Son of Nazi sympathizer and Nixon benefactor, Prescott.
Don't like it? Sorry. But reality is distasteful sometimes. Like that plane that never missile that hit the Pentagon.
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I don't see what I said that was bad. I do feel bad for him. He IS proud of Jeb. I think he might be sad because Jeb now won't have a chance to be president. Evidently that was "the plan."
because apparently your hatred for the "W" is so overt, you somehow can mindread "poppy" and conclude how stricken he is that his son couldn't possibly make a run for president. All because of that bastard, "W". Again, couldn't possibly be tears of joy at how proud he is of his son Jeb. It's all about "W", and it's all his fault. That's beyond arrogance Lanya, even for what I thought you would ever reach. Brass, yea, Knute, well, that goes without saying, but you? I thought wrong apparently :(
Clearly spelling out to everyone your unfettered toady-like love of your master, W.
To you, the Bush name is not only not tarnished, but brightened and beloved by everyone because of W. Jeb couldn't win the presidency without stealing it like his no good P.O.S. brother did 6 years ago.
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Clearly spelling out to everyone your unfettered toady-like love of your master, W. To you, the Bush name is not only not tarnished, but brightened and beloved by everyone because of W. Jeb couldn't win the presidency without stealing it like his no good P.O.S. brother did 6 years ago.
Ignoring of course my frequent criticisms & condemnations aimed at the same "toady". Can't be having those facts get in the way of a good pre-disposed mindset now, can we. Once gain, unless one is burning Bush's name in effigy, by design, they must then be a cool-aide drinking Dean worshi....I mean Bush worshipper
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Unfortunately, people will remember how he had a hand in JFK's death.
prove it. and try to do better than tenuous links at best.
You can tie Kerry closer to oswald than you can Bush.
Oswald didn't kill anyone.
And Bush 41 was working for the CIA and was briefed by Hoover on anti-Castro Cubans (that Bush himself was in charge of!). They were daring Hoover to say the wrong thing.
Bush 41 ran weapons, boats and training out of his Zapata base. He was best buds with Bissell who planned the whole thing.
Oswald was a patsy and possibly an American hero who was more than likely out to stop the assassination by surveiling the operatives who were planning it.
If he didn't kill anyone , then he was possibly played for a patsy by someone.
Who took that picture ?
Why take such a picture?
That Gun was never much of a great gun to be proud of , what is the innocent motive that caused this pose with it?
Indeed. The Mannlicher-Carcanno was merely a set up to frame Oswald.
And is this the first you've heard of Oswald as a patsy? Hello?!?!
As was touched on the movie JFK, why would Oswald go and order a gun from a magazine, a horrible rifle at that, when he could go into any gun shop in TX, give a fake name and have a better rifle with no traceability. Lone Nutters like to say that it was hubris. That Oswald WANTED to get caught. But then the harsh reality of his being arrested sets in.
Allegedly, the reason that a whole troop of cops descended on the TX Theatre was because some guy at a shoe store had seen Ozzie Rabbit sort of slinking along the street turning away from cops driving past as if he DIDN'T want to be caught.
Even better, he spends 12 hours of interrogation (without an attorney present at any time, quite illegal) outright DENYING that he didn't kill anyone.
Oswaldkovich even told the cops that he has NEVER purchased a rifle and that the photo is superimposed. (He worked at a place that processed photography, so he might have some credibility on spotting such stuff.)
The only reason to have a rifle purchased in the manner it was found in a garage with LHO said he never stored any rifle was to make sure he was framed, obviously.
http://www.pimall.com/nais/news/backyard.html (http://www.pimall.com/nais/news/backyard.html)
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Dean worshi....I mean Bush worshipper
Any time you want to point out Dean's faults, of which there are few, then I'd be glad to join you in a new thread and hash them out.
Any time, brother.
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Any time you want to point out Dean's faults, of which there are few, then I'd be glad to join you in a new thread and hash them out. Any time, brother.
LOL......I could then pull out the tried and true, Brass; the Dean cultist coolaideworshipper, as-he-can-do-absolutely-no-wrong, fanatic. You do realize he lied about Saddam's WMD, right? :o
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Any time you want to point out Dean's faults, of which there are few, then I'd be glad to join you in a new thread and hash them out. Any time, brother.
LOL......I could then pull out the tried and true, Brass; the Dean cultist coolaideworshipper, as-he-can-do-absolutely-no-wrong, fanatic. You do realize he lied about Saddam's WMD, right? :o
If DEAN lied, then that would unequivocably indict BUSH as the liar in chief since Dean was merely going on the word of your "president". He made the mistake of taking Bush at his word. Which is what a lot of you have done over the years.
I'm aware that Dean has said that Saddam had WMD. He was wrong. The fact that he has also stated that even if Saddam HAD WMD, that was no reason to invade Iraq and get half a million people killed and many more maimed.
Dean has been proven undeniably right since making that mistake in taking Bush at his word. I think he's more than learned from that mistake. As has any person with half a brain in his head. (Note that you have not and what that then implies about you, halfy.)
Start a new DEAN thread if you want to continue this effortless refutation of your nonsense.
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If DEAN lied, then that would unequivocably indict BUSH as the liar in chief since Dean was merely going on the word of your "president".
Oh, is that what he said? That he came to his conclusion based solely on the word of Bush alone? And you know this how again? And that's an admirable trait you have in him? Amazing. Hope you have some ice cubes to chill the cool aide ;)
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I don't see what I said that was bad. I do feel bad for him. He IS proud of Jeb. I think he might be sad because Jeb now won't have a chance to be president. Evidently that was "the plan."
Good greif?
You would be dissapointed in your son the Govenor?
I am always happy to hear that my children have found honest work.
Oh , ...............
Plane, You are an almost normal human being. The Bushes are rich, greedy , arrogant assholes and their motives are quite different
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Gentlemen (and a lady),
Can we try to have a decent debate? I really don't see anything coming from trying to infer the reasons why the elder Bush would break down in tears. Certainly debating the death of President Kennedy is probably not going to go anywhere without setting some guidelines up front. And debating whether Sirs temple for George W. Bush is less pure than Brass' temple for Howard Dean is possibly the silliest argument known to man. I happen to know that last week Sirs sacrificed a bull and a ram to George W Bush, whereas Brass sacrificed a ram and a camel.
As we all know, Brass is a reformed Deanist who accepts cloven hoof sacrifices and therefore Sirs wins by default!
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Olebush broke down in tears because of what we knew about him all along.
He's a WIMP :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(!
wimp :'(wimp :'(wimpy :'(wimpy :'(wimpy :'( wimp :'(!
There was Juniorbush :-[, the totally incompetent disgrace to the Clan, Nealbush :-X, ther total disgrace to businessmen, and now Jebbybush :-\, the moderately competent governor is retiring.
And Olebush, the bawling wimp :'(!
We should consider Bushes the weeds in the lawn that is the USA. :-[ :-X :-\ :'(
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Ruth Paine's husband, Bill, was a CIA operative and more than likely helped frame Oswald. Paine's family also had CIA ties I believe.
Like i said. It is easier to tie Kerry to Oswald than Bush.
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Ruth Paine's husband, Bill, was a CIA operative and more than likely helped frame Oswald. Paine's family also had CIA ties I believe.
Like i said. It is easier to tie Kerry to Oswald than Bush.
Tying Paine to Oswald would make her seem more heroic in my opinion.
Oswald never killed anybody. Unlike Poppy Bush who weeps for his crimes.
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After watching the Baker/Hamilton recommendations, via a q and a from reporters just now on TV, I have need of no further explanation as to why aides must follow Herbert Walker around with a mop.
Rove, the Neocons, Cheney/Halliburton/todas corporate obscene profits et al, and the mentally simple sinecure W have been indicted by the panel.
Addressing the Florida legislature during a session laudingly celebrating the departing Florida govenor Jeb--who has been the real hope of the family Bush--Pappy broke down righteously.
Several pundits suggested up through yesterday that pappy weeped for Jeb, who was somehow benched by the Neocons, orchestrated by Rove, and whose further chances for a presidential bid--directly due to Jeb's robotic defense of the Rove faction's multiplying failures, as well as the prim and pathetically pathological Katherine Harris' almost transparent con-job--are slim to none.
Surely Herbert Walker knew the general gist of the panel's findings and recommendations, and the public humiliation that was going to follow a few days' hence. Herbert Walker, by blood default, had to step aside and say nothing. One can imagine the personal feelings of a former president who has been approached by his former guard and told that his errant son's continued and single-minded arrogance is putting this nation in escalatingly recalcitrant peril.
Clearly his weeping was also influenced by the fact that the old guard, as well as the multitudinous defections of Republican pols in DC, have stepped up to challenge the embarassingly uninformed right wing christian who is welded--by pathology--to a single concept: stay the course.
It seems apparent to me, at least, that Herbert Walker's grief was largely influenced by W's now univerally recognized abject failure, and that his forced-upon-us war may quite possibly evolve as the most salient American political debacle of the century.
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Unlike Poppy Bush who weeps for his crimes.
You have no idea why Poppy cried. Neither do I. But then you have no proof that GHWB had anything to do with the kennedy assassination, either.
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If I were a betting man, I'd bet the bank that a proper analysis would reveal that Poppy Bush, when talking about "leadership" to a political audience with his younger son present, was moved inexorably to consider and assess how his eldest son was doing in that department. I mean, d'uh.
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Oswald was a patsy and possibly an American hero who was more than likely out to stop the assassination by surveiling the operatives who were planning it.
Please tell me you're joking.
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If I were a betting man, I'd bet the bank that a proper analysis would reveal that Poppy Bush, when talking about "leadership" to a political audience with his younger son present, was moved inexorably to consider and assess how his eldest son was doing in that department. I mean, d'uh.
the more logical explanation was that he was overcome by emotion concerning his pride for his younger son. either that or he stopped taking his antidepression meds.
all things do not revolve around gwb. cheap shots and blatant snark notwithstanding
You know it's funny Brass posts pics of his son benjamin and you can feel the palpable pride in those posts. yet i haven't seen anyone rushing to call brass nasty names for wearing his emotions on his sleeeve.
Perhaps because it's normal for a father to take pride in the actions of his son.
So why would papa's display concerning jeb be any different.
Other than them being Bush's that is.
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It seems apparent to me, at least, that Herbert Walker's grief was largely influenced by W's now univerally recognized abject failure, and that his forced-upon-us war may quite possibly evolve as the most salient American political debacle of the century.
It seems apparent to me that none of the people who seem so certain G.H.W. Bush was weeping over G.W. Bush have any basis for this except something along the lines of "well, that must be it." As best I can tell, none of you actually know the man, so your insistence that his crying must be about G.W. Bush comes off as really pathetic wishful thinking.
There are times when I think I'm becoming too cynical, but then I come here and watch people try to assign all manner of imagined subtext to the littlest details of the words and/or actions of political or ideological opponents, and then present these silly figments as justification or evidence of some nonsense notion or other. And then I know I'm barely scratching the surface of cynical.
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It seems apparent to me, at least, that Herbert Walker's grief was largely influenced by W's now univerally recognized abject failure, and that his forced-upon-us war may quite possibly evolve as the most salient American political debacle of the century.
It seems apparent to me that none of the people who seem so certain G.H.W. Bush was weeping over G.W. Bush have any basis for this except something along the lines of "well, that must be it." As best I can tell, none of you actually know the man, so your insistence that his crying must be about G.W. Bush comes off as really pathetic wishful thinking.
There are times when I think I'm becoming too cynical, but then I come here and watch people try to assign all manner of imagined subtext to the littlest details of the words and/or actions of political or ideological opponents, and then present these silly figments as justification or evidence of some nonsense notion or other. And then I know I'm barely scratching the surface of cynical.
You are not cynical , sweety. You are what the Repub carnies call an easy mark.
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Prince, of course I don't know that's what GHW Bush was thinking. I was imagining how and what I'd thing and feel if I were in the same position.
Last tnight I looked up "Jeb Bush groomed for President" and read some interesting articles. He has been groomed for it. He is thought to be the best and the brightest in the family.
Some of the articles mentioned "Bush fatigue."
I'm thinking Poppy is very proud of Jeb. That is what he said: "He lost, and he didn't whine." And then he cried.
At that point, I thought, how sad; Poppy probably thinks people are so tired of the Bush name that he won't be alive to see Jeb run for President.
Something he's probably been waiting for for years.
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Prince, of course I don't know that's what GHW Bush was thinking. I was imagining how and what I'd thing and feel if I were in the same position.
Last tnight I looked up "Jeb Bush groomed for President" and read some interesting articles. He has been groomed for it. He is thought to be the best and the brightest in the family.
Some of the articles mentioned "Bush fatigue."
I'm thinking Poppy is very proud of Jeb. That is what he said: "He lost, and he didn't whine." And then he cried.
At that point, I thought, how sad; Poppy probably thinks people are so tired of the Bush name that he won't be alive to see Jeb run for President.
Something he's probably been waiting for for years.
Possibly. But then again, maybe he was just proud of his son. Fathers sometimes are like that.
I guess it isn't the speculation that bothers me so much. It's the sense of authority that some used as if they were experts on the internal emotional and mental processes of G.H.W. Bush. Seems a bit juvenile to criticize the guy for something someone who doesn't know him thought he was thinking. I have to wonder how they would react if someone started talking about how Ted Kennedy is a fat drunk because that is how he deals with the guilt of leading this country toward bad policies and/or killing that girl in the car. (Not saying I believe that, 'cause I don't. Just using it as turn-about example.) I mean, it's really silly (to put it nicely) to make those kind of statements because we don't actually know those people. We may know them as public speakers or politicians, but we don't know them as people. We don't know what they are genuinely like at home or on an everyday basis or even on general conversation once a month sort of basis. Heck, we hardly know each other around the Saloon here.
Get Brassmask and me talking politics, and we're getting mean and calling names before too long. Get us talking about movies, and we're almost like old friends. But most people wouldn't know that because all they see around here is us talking politics. To suppose that we know public figures well enough to make judgments about what may or may not really be in their minds in personal moments is patently absurd.
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I can't say I really care about why Olebush cried.
I recall that the reports around the Reagan Whitehouse were that he was a "wimp".
When the reports began to surface in the election against Dukakis, he stonewalled his wimpishness, along with the rumors of his mistress, named Jennifer, as well as his nefarious deeds in the Iran Contra mess. His method is that of the CIA Deny everything loudly.
And yet, here he is publicly crying. I can conclude that all the rest of his ruse was just that: a ruse. He is not what he says he is.
God knows, neither is his incompetent lying president son. Not to mention his thieving lying son Neil.
Wait and see. Odds are that Jebbybush will soon offer himself, sacrificially, as futurepres Bush 44 or perhaps 45. We have not heard the last of Jebby.
Jebby is not as incompetent as Juniorbush, but he still works for the same puppeteers.
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And yet, here he is publicly crying.
Okay, so he's no Randolph Scott, but so what if he cried in public? How does that make him a wimp? It's not like he broke down into a sobbing heap on the floor. The way you people keep talking about him publicly crying, you'd think he'd started weeping like a little girl. The man just let his emotions show for a moment and otherwise kept his composure. What is bad about that?
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Nothing, except that it reveals that (a) his vociferous denials of wimpishness were fraudulent, and reveal him to be a hypocrite, and (b) also reveal that stonewalling (ie denying everything, no matter how convincing the evidence) is his (and it seems Juniorbush's) modus operandi as well.
This does not mean he is not human, just that he isn't really believeable.
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it reveals that (a) his vociferous denials of wimpishness were fraudulent, and reveal him to be a hypocrite,
I am still confused as to why the tears in public make him a wimp. Would you explain this, please?
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Remember Ed Muskie?
That's why.
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Remember Ed Muskie?
That's why.
Muskie had a much better reason for crying. His wife was being attacked by one of the truly nasty men opf his time. (Repubs have gotten much worse since then , tho)
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/remember/muskie_3-26.html
I think Old Geo now knows that the Bush name will now go down in history in shame as one of the most evil like the Borgia's or Vlad The Impaler.
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Unlike Poppy Bush who weeps for his crimes.
You have no idea why Poppy cried. Neither do I. But then you have no proof that GHWB had anything to do with the kennedy assassination, either.
I have lots of information that says that he at least MAY have been involved. That's something.
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. . . something along the lines of "well, that must be it." As best I can tell, none of you actually know the man, so your insistence that his crying must be about G.W. Bush comes off as really pathetic wishful thinking.
[/quote]
"actually know the man."
So, all manners of emotional expression are beyond understanding and interpretation, unless you "actually know the man?"
Is Father Bush so individualist, so unique that nothing can be said of his manner and practice of emotional expression?
Well, that is one school of thought.
However, I wouldn't suggest embracing it, for the dynamic here--unique, individualist, beyond interpretation unless the subject is 'actually known'--more closely resembles a fairly common defense mechanism about therapy--a patient's strategy of defense against psychological counsel. People early in group therapy will try to subvert the process by making such claims, thus striving to establish an equal footing and thereby controll their invulnerability to an emotionally investigative process by suggesting that his "opinions" successfully deny the existence of any universal principles re: the emotional apparatus which are common to us all.
His "opinions" about the matter, which he carefully and, with questionable affect, calmly, submits as unassailable logic, thus establishing a neat defense, should emotional pressure threaten his carefully constructed defense mechanisms against losing emotional control.
There is the matter of congruence. The dictionary, defining the word for general common use, supplies clarification, variously: corresponding, harmonius, fitting, suitable, appropriate.
In the science of psychology and specifically in terms of the dynamics of emotional expression, it further specifies that feelings expressed are considered congruent, and therefore not pathological, if the energy and direction of expression are reflective and relate in measure to the stimulus. Feelings expressed are considered congruent if they appropriately reflect the circumstance involved. (It also should be added that, if determination is otherwise, one begins then to look for manipulative intent, usually defensive in nature.)
The question then remains: was father Bush's emotional breakdown at Jeb's celebratory function one of congruence? (In therapy, btw, an emotional breakdown is usually regarded as an emotional 'breakthrough," signalling a collapse of defensive stance.)
Was his emotionally expressive comportment appropriate to the circumstance?
It should be noted, that as an adjunct for comprehensive interpretation, other concurrent factors affecting his emotional system should have to be considered. One such factor might be that while Jeb celebrated his departure from his generally considered successful governorship, his other son--the president of the United States--was about to be daggered by his father's best friend, publically, thus signalling interpretively a strong sense of defeat for the family in general, remembering that the role of father is usually vulnerable to interpretation via buck stops here.
Some schools, I add here, using a tougher tough love approach, would suggest that usually at the bottom of the motivational barrel, when all is said and done, we are finally really talking about ourselves. In this particular frame of reference, one is left to decide if any feeling of failure as a father that he experienced dealt with the indefatigable merit badge winner Jeb, or the classically defiant, stubborn, rebellious, bent-to-disprove-father scapegoat son George.
It is really an easy call.
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Remember Ed Muskie?
That's why.
No, I did not remember Ed Muskie. I was an infant at the time of his 1972 crying incident, which I wouldn't know about if I hadn't looked it up at Wikipedia. But anyway, what does that have to do with Bush? 34 years is long time to hold a grudge.
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So, all manners of emotional expression are beyond understanding and interpretation, unless you "actually know the man?"
Is Father Bush so individualist, so unique that nothing can be said of his manner and practice of emotional expression?
No, and no. I did not say nothing can ever be said about his emotional expression. What I said was there doesn't seem to be any basis, other than wishful thinking, for assigning the man's emotional moment to thoughts of President G.W. Bush. You don't know him and he is not in your therapy group, therefore you have not enough knowledge to make an informed appraisal of his thoughts at the time of his tears.
However, I wouldn't suggest embracing it, for the dynamic here--unique, individualist, beyond interpretation unless the subject is 'actually known'--
I wouldn't suggest embracing that either. Probably why I did not suggest it in the first place.
The question then remains: was father Bush's emotional breakdown at Jeb's celebratory function one of congruence? (In therapy, btw, an emotional breakdown is usually regarded as an emotional 'breakthrough," signalling a collapse of defensive stance.)
Except of course that Bush the elder was not in therapy. And what happened hardly seems like an emotional breakdown, unless you're going to call all emotional expression with tears an emotional breakdown.
Was his emotionally expressive comportment appropriate to the circumstance?
Yes. It would not be the first time a father had tears in a moment pride for his son. That you seem unwilling to acknowledge this possibility only adds to my opinion that your approach to the situation is one of wishful thinking.
Some schools, I add here, using a tougher tough love approach, would suggest that usually at the bottom of the motivational barrel, when all is said and done, we are finally really talking about ourselves. In this particular frame of reference, one is left to decide if any feeling of failure as a father that he experienced dealt with the indefatigable merit badge winner Jeb, or the classically defiant, stubborn, rebellious, bent-to-disprove-father scapegoat son George.
Feeling of failure as a father? See, this is what I'm talking about. You don't know that any feeling of failure as a father was even remotely involved. There is nothing in the moment to suggest that such a feeling was in play, except, as I said before, your wishful thinking. You're making up what you want to believe about the moment and arguing it must be true because you "know" it is. Or, to put it in common terms, you're talking bullshit.
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Look, they're public figures, indeed the most prominent public figures in the country. While a definitive "diagnosis" of HW Bush's cry will have to await a competent "analysis" of which he is a part, as Crane has amply demonstrated there are plentiful circumstances upon which a theory can be competently based. And doing so is part of our right and duty as constituents, in a process which they fully consented to by entering the rings they did. Besides, the exercise is common-sensical and heuristic: What do you REALLY think weighs most pressingly on Senior's mind these days? And what does this expression of anguish reveal about the depth of our plight? It has great value to the national dialog, even if symbolic, which I contend it was not.
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Remember Ed Muskie?
That's why.
No, I did not remember Ed Muskie. I was an infant at the time of his 1972 crying incident, which I wouldn't know about if I hadn't looked it up at Wikipedia. But anyway, what does that have to do with Bush? 34 years is long time to hold a grudge.
I'm not holding a grudge, I'm saying that's how politics is. It is more like street fighting than it is beanbag. Crying is not done, not in politics, not in our culture.
It may have changed some. Maybe.
Even then, if she had died, I could see him getting away with crying. Maybe. But crying because she was attacked by an opponent? No. Way.
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Remember Ed Muskie?
That's why.
No, I did not remember Ed Muskie. I was an infant at the time of his 1972 crying incident, which I wouldn't know about if I hadn't looked it up at Wikipedia. But anyway, what does that have to do with Bush? 34 years is long time to hold a grudge.
I'm not holding a grudge, I'm saying that's how politics is. It is more like street fighting than it is beanbag. Crying is not done, not in politics, not in our culture.
It may have changed some. Maybe.
Even then, if she had died, I could see him getting away with crying. Maybe. But crying because she was attacked by an opponent? No. Way.
I see your point politicians need to be topugh because we want to be lead by tough minded men.
Trueman Said , If you can't stand the Heat , get out of the Kitchen and his opposition was ferocious in compareing him unfavorably to rustic uneducated types.
But Former President Bush is old and retired , I don't think that attacks on him serve any point other than simple meanness.
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Look, they're public figures, indeed the most prominent public figures in the country. While a definitive "diagnosis" of HW Bush's cry will have to await a competent "analysis" of which he is a part, as Crane has amply demonstrated there are plentiful circumstances upon which a theory can be competently based. And doing so is part of our right and duty as constituents, in a process which they fully consented to by entering the rings they did. Besides, the exercise is common-sensical and heuristic: What do you REALLY think weighs most pressingly on Senior's mind these days? And what does this expression of anguish reveal about the depth of our plight? It has great value to the national dialog, even if symbolic, which I contend it was not.
The sad thing is, I think you may actually be serious. Great value to the national dialog? Speculative rumormongering has no value to the national dialog. What does this expression of anguish reveal about the depth of our plight? Probably nothing at all. The real question is, what does this internet version of back-fence gossip reveal about us? I say it is not to our credit, not in the least.
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I'm not holding a grudge, I'm saying that's how politics is. It is more like street fighting than it is beanbag. Crying is not done, not in politics, not in our culture.
I suppose you're correct, though I still say the mean-spirited speculations are unnecessary and ridiculous.
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<<But Former President Bush is old and retired , I don't think that attacks on him serve any point other than simple meanness.>>
Well Plane, I know you all don't believe anything a Democrat said (God willing, Jesus will come down in the form of a gay Jewish Democratic Mexican union organizer and you all won't have a thing to do with him).
But I didn't attack GHW Bush. I was interested in why he cried. I surmised. You don't like it? Tough.
Prince, if by "mean-spirited" you mean "tell the truth as I see it about a Republican" then so be it. I'm mean-spirited.
By the way, is it mean-spirited to note that Poppy Bush is not lying in the cold ground? He's alive, rich, etc. while his idiot son dithers and naps his way through the presidency? While so far, 2,922 servicemen and women have been killed and who knows how many Iraqis? Is that too mean-spirited?
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He's alive, rich, etc. while his idiot son dithers and naps his way through the presidency?
Sounds like "mean-spirited" and "jealous" to me.
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<<But Former President Bush is old and retired , I don't think that attacks on him serve any point other than simple meanness.>>
Well Plane, I know you all don't believe anything a Democrat said (God willing, Jesus will come down in the form of a gay Jewish Democratic Mexican union organizer and you all won't have a thing to do with him).
But I didn't attack GHW Bush. I was interested in why he cried. I surmised. You don't like it? Tough.
Prince, if by "mean-spirited" you mean "tell the truth as I see it about a Republican" then so be it. I'm mean-spirited.
By the way, is it mean-spirited to note that Poppy Bush is not lying in the cold ground? He's alive, rich, etc. while his idiot son dithers and naps his way through the presidency? While so far, 2,922 servicemen and women have been killed and who knows how many Iraqis? Is that too mean-spirited?
There is no surmiseing necessacery, he explained his emotion himself and it is not hard to figure out form the context .
Unless you want to be mean.
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Prince, if by "mean-spirited" you mean "tell the truth as I see it about a Republican" then so be it.
I did not say you in particular were being mean-spirited. But to answer your question, no, that is not what I mean. There is a difference between telling the truth as you see it and presenting speculations as truth. In this situation we have several people gloating over Bush the elder letting tears go in public and proclaiming it as a sign of his troubled conscience, but not because there is any reasonable basis for that speculation. And that is mean-spirited. As for whether that applies to you, if the shoe fits...
By the way, is it mean-spirited to note that Poppy Bush is not lying in the cold ground? He's alive, rich, etc. while his idiot son dithers and naps his way through the presidency? While so far, 2,922 servicemen and women have been killed and who knows how many Iraqis? Is that too mean-spirited?
With your tone, it might be. I did not say criticizing the man for what we do know of and about him was inherently mean-spirited. I do not believe unfounded gossip does any of us any good. While it may help some feel morally superior to the Bush family, it still unfounded gossip. Something I should think we would want to reject rather than embrace. If that criticism offends you, too damn bad. I too get to tell the truth as I see it.