Author Topic: personal thoughts on the Jena 6  (Read 9486 times)

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BT

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2007, 11:44:15 PM »
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Probably it should be. But I think that the actions on both sides (including previous fights and incidents) were all hate based crimes - it's kind of a wash.

Should previous activity be pertinent in hate crime adjudication?

Or is that for a jury to decide?

Tthis whole thing is about arbitrary decisions by the DA.


hnumpah

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2007, 11:45:56 PM »
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"He was taken to the hospital, but was released and was well enough to go to a social event that evening."

So, if I take a shot at you during an armed robbery, and miss, I can't be charged with attempted murder simply because you're able to go to a party later that evening? It is the act that is charged, not necessarily the outcome.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2007, 09:42:23 AM »
<<Ranting the theory that this was some "unspoken school policy" and as a result, the blacks in question "snapped" defies all aspects of common sense. >>

I never said this was "unspoken school policy," but that the black students might have felt that it was.  As a matter of fact, about three posts back, I was careful to emphasize that this might have been perceived or felt to be school policy by the black students. 

Let me give you a quckl reality lesson, Tee.  People can FEEL anything.  There's frequently no rhyme or reason for someone to feel some emotion.  Using feelings vs one's own thought process is one of the biggest flaws to liberal ideology, since so much is based on good intentions to make one feel better, but damn the consequences of the actions/proposals, so long as it makes one feel good about it. 


Here's what I said then: <<Nobody missed it.  What YOU [Ami] missed was the significance of the felt need to ask.>>
I thought that made it pretty clear that I was not talking about actual school policy, which would have required a real need to ask, but only about a perceived school policy, which would have produced a "felt" rather than a real or actual need to ask.


Which is course is 100% PURE SPECULATION, with not a shred of evidentiary back-up, again, much liked the Bush lied garbage.  It's basically what you want it to be...or should I say, its your feeling that this is how it went down.  Which simply adds even more layers of non-substance to your end of the discussion

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2007, 10:44:59 AM »
<<Let me give you a quckl reality lesson, Tee.  People can FEEL anything.  There's frequently no rhyme or reason for someone to feel some emotion.  Using feelings vs one's own thought process is one of the biggest flaws to liberal ideology, since so much is based on good intentions to make one feel better, but damn the consequences of the actions/proposals, so long as it makes one feel good about it. >>

First of all, the issue is dead because as Ami has pointed out, apparently the kid's asking permission was meant as a joke, not because he really felt he needed permission.  If he had NOT been joking, your point that "there's frequently o rhyme or reason for someone to feel some emotion" is (like pretty much everything you say) absurdly unreal and truly indicative of someone who has no real experience of life - -of course most emotions or feelings are based on something and in this particular case, if the kid HAD felt the need to ask for permission to sit under the tree, the only logical reason he would have felt the need to ask would have been the underlying racism of the society - - which, BTW, is quite real, as demonstrated by the other factors in the case - - the nooses, the actions of the Sheriff and D.A. and the selective prosecutions and obvious abuse of prosecutorial discretion.


<<Which is course is 100% PURE SPECULATION [referring to school policy as perceived by black students, based on what I then assumed in the absence of contrary evidence was a real need to ask permission to sit under the tree]  with not a shred of evidentiary back-up, again . . .>>

standard sirs modus operandi - - the "not a shred of evidence" malarkey, after all of the evidence, in this case, the nooses, the prosecutor's and sheriff's actions and the relatively benign school reaction to the nooses, had all been laid out in painstaking detail by myself and other posters in this very thread.  sirs' belief is, if the evidence is against you, don't argue with it, just claim that it does not exist, and maybe there's one imbecile in 1,000 (likely an illiterate) who will be taken in by the denial.

<<much liked the Bush lied garbage.  It's basically what you want it to be...or should I say, its your feeling that this is how it went down.  >>

The Bush "garbage" is basically an iron-clad case that he lied the country into war, which I would think most normal people have come to accept as self-evident.  The circumstantial case for a lie (which, short of a confession or a tape of the lie's actually being planned or discussed, is the ONLY kind of a case it's possible to have) is overwhelming.  Once again, defeated in every discussion of the actual issue, with all cards on the table, sirs resorts to the back-door tactic of ignoring all the evidence that proves Bush lied, denies the existence of any such evidence, and tries to pull it off in a one-word indictment ("garbage") as if, by calling it garbage, sirs has finally settled the issue once and for all.  Pathetic.

<<Which simply adds even more layers of non-substance to your end of the discussion>>

Right, windbag.  It (what, exactly?) "simply adds even more layers of non-substance," why?  Why because sirs says so, of course.   You are so full of shit.  If you want to attack something I said, fine.  But you'll have to do a lot better than just calling it "garbage" or "adds more layers of non-substance."  You'll have to lay out your reasons.  Oh, sorry, I forgot.  You already did that, and I wiped the floor with them.  Sorry.

sirs

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2007, 01:20:00 PM »
<<much liked the Bush lied garbage.  It's basically what you want it to be...or should I say, its your feeling that this is how it went down.  >>

The Bush "garbage" is basically an iron-clad case that he lied the country into war, which I would think most normal people have come to accept as self-evident.

 :D   Well, at least I got to laugh at the joke of the day, so far.  The day is young however, and likely frought with many more to come from the left side of the aisle
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2007, 01:49:35 PM »
<<Well, at least I got to laugh at the joke of the day, so far.  The day is young however, and likely frought with many more to come from the left side of the aisle>>

You get to laugh at lots of things, sirs.  As do I.  One of the benefits of belonging to this group, I guess.

sirs

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2007, 01:51:53 PM »
<<Well, at least I got to laugh at the joke of the day, so far.  The day is young however, and likely frought with many more to come from the left side of the aisle>>

You get to laugh at lots of things, sirs. 

Now there's a substantiated understatement
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2007, 02:55:43 PM »
I cannot help but envision sirs as being totally hairless and naked from rolling around so much at all the opinions he considers mirthful. Rolling around on threadbare a threadbare carpet covered with buttons, rags and drool.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2007, 07:10:29 PM »
That's pretty .....ummm..... revealing Xo, if that's what you tend to ummmmm ... envision         :P
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2007, 07:46:05 PM »
Perhaps you are unaware of the vast number of times you indicate you are prone to laugh at the posts of other individuals.

It's not like I want to envision this. Far from it.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2007, 08:03:34 PM »
Then my suggestion is don't.  Or at least don't display such a tendency in a public forum
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2007, 08:19:45 PM »

Is the noose the figurative trump card for the defense? Is the symbolism of the noose a valid excuse for the anger that culminated in what obviously borders on a racial hate crime?


By itself, no. It's one thing added to several others that lead up to the beating. But I'd say the nooses in the tree is a good symbol of the sort of racism in the environment of the teens. Expulsions for the students who made and hung the nooses would have done a lot to deflate the situation, at least for the African-American teens. But that didn't happen. And from there, the racial insults apparently continued, until someone got the snot beat out of him. No, beating the guy up is not a good response, but it is one I can understand. And the fact that those teens were living with the kind of racism that results in nooses in a tree, well, yeah, I think that should be a factor to consider in this case. But that's my opinion, and said I said before, I know my reaction is emotional. I've tried to separate my emotions from this situation, but I confess I'm finding that very difficult. I keep going back to the fact that they were living in a environment that included someone put nooses in a tree and get basically a slap on the wrist for it. Which leads me back to my emotional reaction.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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BT

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2007, 08:21:59 PM »
are the nooses something for the jury to consider or the DA, when setting charges?




Universe Prince

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2007, 08:25:09 PM »

Six Black Jena High students, Robert Bailey (17), Theo Shaw (17),
Carwin Jones (18), Bryant Purvis (17), Mychal Bell (16) and an
unidentified minor, were expelled from school, arrested and charged
with second-degree attempted murder.  The first trial ended last
month, and Mychal Bell, who has been in prison since December, was
convicted of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated
battery (both felonies) by an all-white jury in a trial where his
public defender called no witnesses. During his trial, Mychal's
parents were ordered not to speak to the media and the court
prohibited protests from taking place near the courtroom or where the
judge could see them.


Damn. What year is this again? 1957?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2007, 08:27:32 PM »

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Because if I could be put in their place, I cannot say for certain that I would not have hit someone.

But would you have ganged up on him, or continued to beat him after he was unconscious?


I hope not, but I don't know.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--