DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 06:30:33 PM
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. . . and that's just from last night alone. Formidable.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/ap-attacks-praise-stretch_n_123771.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/ap-attacks-praise-stretch_n_123771.html)
The "cutting of government waste" is one of the bigger whoppers. Palin lobbied $27 million in Fed. boondoggles for Wasilla, using a professional lobbyist to do so, supported the "Bridge to Nowhere" until it attracted national exposure as a White Elephant and then turned on it.
the "commander in chief" of the national guard commanded a federalized force that wasn't hers to command, and in any event is one of the smallest in the country. Keeping in mind, this isn't a contest between her and Obama as to who's least experienced, it's a test of McCain's self-imposed criteria of "experience" as a job requirement. If (according to him) you need way more experience than Obama has to be C - in - C, then Palin doesn't have it either, so nominating her to succeed him proves his hypocrisy, proves that experience is NOT as important as McCain claims, and shows that even McCain wouldn't have any real problem with Obama's taking over the reins, since his own pick for the job is only marginally ahead of Obama in "experience>'
the claim by Huckabee that Palin got more votes as Mayor of Wasilla than Biden got in his Presidential candidate bid is pure fiction.
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Pallin has run a business and signed paychecks.
Of the four she is the only one with this experience.
As to writeing bills and pushing legislation the four canadates have got more than a century of experience accumulated between them.
But only one of them has the experience of hunting for needed food , of fishing for a living .
Is the experience of real life actually useless in the management of national office?
Biden and Obama have had how many non gov ernment jobs between them?
Even My favoriate McCain has worked more for the Federal government than in th eclimate of business most of us deal with in employment.
Having a government of the civil servants and polls , by the civil servants and polls and for the civil servants and polls strikes no one as a problem?
Some experience of life outside the government is a good thing , government provideing its own workforce round and round is incestuous and produces government too far removed from the people .
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I am sure that a president that hunts her own moose could save a bit on the Vice Presidential house food budget, but this would be offset by the travel expenses of relocating her to a moose-rich environment. There is a paucity of moose and other wild game in DC. Unless you count squirrels.
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<<Pallin has run a business and signed paychecks.
<<Of the four she is the only one with this experience.>>
One of the keynote speakers before Palin, singing the praises of America's small businessmen and businesswomen, happened to mention that there were 27 million of them.
So you are basically telling us that Palin's membership in an elite club that has 27 million members somehow is a good qualification to be commander in chief. Put this another way, if 27 million people are doing it right now, it is not and can never be, rocket science.
<<But only one of them has the experience of hunting for needed food , of fishing for a living.>>
Lotta people can do this, plane. Dozens of millions. Every fucking Neanderthal had to do it. The inhabitants of the Mato Grosso do it every day.
<<Is the experience of real life actually useless in the management of national office?>>
Real life is just as real in the universities as it is on the trap-line, plane. Just some people in the universities are a hell of a lot better equipped to deal with this complex world than the trappers and hunters of the world.
<<Having a government of the civil servants and polls , by the civil servants and polls and for the civil servants and polls strikes no one as a problem?>>
Eight years of Republican government and you think the civil servants and the politicians were the beneficiaries of it, that that's who the Republican administration was serving? Wow, plane, you are further out of it than I realized.
<<Some experience of life outside the government is a good thing . . . >>
Exactly. Like experience in academia. Experience in the book-writing business. Experience in community organizing. I agree with you.
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<<Pallin has run a business and signed paychecks.
<<Of the four she is the only one with this experience.>>
One of the keynote speakers before Palin, singing the praises of America's small businessmen and businesswomen, happened to mention that there were 27 million of them.
So you are basically telling us that Palin's membership in an elite club that has 27 million members somehow is a good qualification to be commander in chief. Put this another way, if 27 million people are doing it right now, it is not and can never be, rocket science.
Would you rather have the votes of NASA's reasearchers , or the votes of 27 million Small business owners?
The government represents its own intrests within itself quite well , don't limit this to the last eight years or the last hundred , it has always been this way. An infusion of non incestuous experience is generally a good thing.
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<<Would you rather have the votes of NASA's reasearchers , or the votes of 27 million Small business owners?>>
What makes you think they'd vote in a bloc anyway?
You're switching the issues on me. When 27 million small business owners were first mentioned here, the issue was Palin's qualifications to serve, based on membership in the group. Your point being that by virtue of her belonging to this "exclusive" group, she was somehow qualified to serve as C - in - C of America's military, and mine being that membership in a group of 27 million Americans is by definition a badge of mediocrity and in no way qualifies her to serve as C - in - C. Are we done with that issue?
Insofar as the worth of their votes are concerned, in response to your question, I'd rather have the votes of 27 million small business owners than the votes of 2700 NASA researchers.
(The question really shoulda bin, "What would you rather have, the votes of 27 million small business owners or the votes of 27 million NASA researchers?")
<<The government represents its own intrests within itself quite well , don't limit this to the last eight years or the last hundred , it has always been this way. An infusion of non incestuous experience is generally a good thing.>>
I beg to differ, the interests really represented best by the Bush administration have been those of the military-industrial complex, the oil industry and the Zionist Lobby.
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<<Would you rather have the votes of NASA's reasearchers , or the votes of 27 million Small business owners?>>
What makes you think they'd vote in a bloc anyway?
You're switching the issues on me. When 27 million small business owners were first mentioned here, the issue was Palin's qualifications to serve, based on membership in the group. Your point being that by virtue of her belonging to this "exclusive" group, she was somehow qualified to serve as C - in - C of America's military, and mine being that membership in a group of 27 million Americans is by definition a badge of mediocrity and in no way qualifies her to serve as C - in - C. Are we done with that issue?
Insofar as the worth of their votes are concerned, in response to your question, I'd rather have the votes of 27 million small business owners than the votes of 2700 NASA researchers.
(The question really shoulda bin, "What would you rather have, the votes of 27 million small business owners or the votes of 27 million NASA researchers?")
<<The government represents its own intrests within itself quite well , don't limit this to the last eight years or the last hundred , it has always been this way. An infusion of non incestuous experience is generally a good thing.>>
I beg to differ, the interests really represented best by the Bush administration have been those of the military-industrial complex, the oil industry and the Zionist Lobby.
I am sorry I haven't made this point clear , exclusiveity and eleteism is a problem for a canadate , not a helpfull thing to brag on.
Have you seen BHO offering his Doctorial thesis for the perusal of the public?
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:D
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<<Have you seen BHO offering his Doctorial thesis for the perusal of the public?>>
He doesn't think it would be fair to take up seven years of sirs' life. Some of those words have three syllables or more.
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Oh boy, what a knee-slapper :D
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<<Have you seen BHO offering his Doctorial thesis for the perusal of the public?>>
He doesn't think it would be fair to take up seven years of sirs' life. Some of those words have three syllables or more.
Oh yes , I m a Troglodite and I vote.
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<<Oh yes , I m a Troglodite and I vote.>>
THAT is a big part of the problem. The Trog vote. Even Obama has to pander to it.
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<<Oh yes , I m a Troglodite and I vote.>>
THAT is a big part of the problem. The Trog vote. Even Obama has to pander to it.
He isn't any good at it.
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Pallin has run a business and signed paychecks.
Having worked for and reviewing the books for a few others that "signed paychecks" I can honestly say that this remark by Plane is one of the least meaningful statements I've ever read in a campaign.
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<<Having worked for and reviewing the books for a few others that "signed paychecks" I can honestly say that this remark by Plane is one of the least meaningful statements I've ever read in a campaign.>>
Less meaningful than ever now that the Republicans were stupid enough to remind us that 27 million Americans are able to do it.
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Less meaningful than ever now that the Republicans were stupid enough to remind us that 27 million Americans are able to do it.
It's a smaller voting block than the blacks but if McCain/ Palin get 90% of small business owners they are doing well. Each small business averages about 18 employees and small but fruitful zone of influence.
Probably wise to recognize their worth to the economy.
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Probably wise to recognize their worth to the economy.
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Sure, they have influence. That is hardly the issue.
It is Plane's contention that somehow signing someone else's paychecks magically qualifies someone to be president.
I don't think it's really very relevant.
It's like the old crap that a good teacher makes a good administrator.
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It's like the old crap that a good teacher makes a good administrator.
Hmmm they say Obama was a good teacher at the law school.
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Hmmm they say Obama was a good teacher at the law school.
I did not say that good teachers are bad administrators, I said that good teachers are not necessarily good school administrators.
Good teaching requires a different skill set than administrating fellow educators effectively. Some can do it, some can't.
If you had ever been a teacher, you would know exactly what I mean.
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I think that being an educator is a valuable life experience , being an emplyer is another valuable life experience.
Some what simular too, you must praise and disapoint and get the best out of students , an employer also must deal with people and get the best of them if he can, People depend on teachers and they depend on their employers .
The experience of haveing a bunch of people depending on you is something I would want in the history of a Preident.
Of coourse there are diffrences between being a teacher and being an employer , I am pointing out simularitys to introduce the idea.
The Presidency , as an executive position is something like being an employer , every now and then a President has to call someone in to say "your fired".
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It's like the old crap that a good teacher makes a good administrator.
So it isn't necessarily old crap?
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It's like the old crap that a good teacher makes a good administrator.
So it isn't necessarily old crap?
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Most administrators believe that all good teachers make good administrators, even those who have no interest in telling others how to teach or holding all those usually meaningless boring meetings.
Some teachers see getting a chairmanship or some other administrative position as a promotion. I never did. Teaching and experimenting with new methods is a challenge. Manipulating one's colleagues always seemed like a tedious imposition on the freedom of said colleagues to me. I am surely not the only one.
So it is just not always true, that is all.
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If you need a place to host your travelogues i'll be glad to work with you. Been thinking of reviving post 41 , with movie reviews travel tips etc.
let me know if interested.
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I can host as well.