DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Kramer on March 29, 2010, 10:35:34 PM
-
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=133893 (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=133893)
-
I like Buchanan when he talks about the illogic of the U.S. wars of unprovoked aggression or about the sinister and totally unwarranted influence of the Israel Lobby on American politics. I don't like him when he draws ludicrous comparisons between the Tea Parties and the radical politics of the 1960s.
The Sixties radicals were faced with a country which was sacrificing the lives of about 200 young Americans every week in a cruel and senseless war of unprovoked aggression, generated by lies every bit as crude and obviously ridiculous as the lies with which the Bush administration lied the U.S. into the Iraq War; they were fighting a racist society still coming to grips with the Civil Rights legislation of the mid-Sixties and trying to accomplish their goals through democratic channels despite the repeated assassinations of their most promising leaders.
While Buchanan is twisting his knickers in feigned outrage over the mass demonstrations of the Left and their supposed "violence" (mostly property destruction) he says absolutely nothing - - not one God-damn word!! - - about the mysterious assassinations of independent politicians like JFK or real progressives like RFK or Martin Luther King. Not a word about the repeated massacres of student demonstrators by agents of the state at Kent State or Orangeburg or Jackson State. It's incredible - - he must think his readers are a bunch of fucking morons with no memories of their own recent history. Not a single word about the massive police violence inflicted on peaceful Civil Rights demonstrators at Selma, at Mongomery, at Birmingham. The assassination of Medgar Evers? Never happened. Medgar who? The police killings of Fred Hampton and Mark Clark.
Well, all I can say about Buchanan is that he's uneven - - sometimes he nails it and sometimes he doesn't.
-
there is not comparisons to the Tea Party and liberals was Buchanan's point.
Liberals are just plane liars and have serious anger management issues.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/03/30/rove_shouted_down_called_war_criminal_at_book_signing.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/03/30/rove_shouted_down_called_war_criminal_at_book_signing.html)
-
I'd say it's the right-wing anti-government nuts that have the anger managment problems, and you don't have to look all the way back to the Sixties to the examples I posted from there.
Try today's headlines about "Christian Warriors" an anti-government militia arrested in Michigan for plotting to massacre law enforcement officers in honour of Jesus Christ.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=T1 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=T1)
Let me know when you find any "Leftists" as dangerous as these wackos.
-
Leave it to Tee to find an extreme splinter faction, and try to paintbrush that as an example of your typical right wing
Typical Tee, is what it is
-
I'd say it's the right-wing anti-government nuts that have the anger managment problems, and you don't have to look all the way back to the Sixties to the examples I posted from there.
Try today's headlines about "Christian Warriors" an anti-government militia arrested in Michigan for plotting to massacre law enforcement officers in honour of Jesus Christ.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=T1 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=T1)
Let me know when you find any "Leftists" as dangerous as these wackos.
They seem like the kinda folk Obama would have a beer with. Ever heard of Bill Ayers or Rev. Wright? Not the type of Christians that Bush would hang around or attend services with. These Michigan guys seem like they attend a similar type of church Obama attended for 20 years. Get the connection? It's called hate. Anyone attending a so-called 'CHRISTIAN' church when they hear hate speech or plans to kill people they best get out of that church real fast, I know I would. You see Mikey there are people that call themselves Christian but they aren't. Kinda like there are peaceful practicing Muslims and then the ones that spread hate and terror. Except it appears that many mainstream Muslims actually sit back and let themselves get paint brushed along with the radical Muslims.
I would think you would be the kinda fella that would be intelligent enough to be aware of these very obvious differences. This is where your credibility gets shot and you look like the typical hate-filled liberal wacko when you say such stupid things as you so often do.
-
Let me know when you find any "Leftists" as dangerous as these wackos.
Does Norman Leboon ring a bell? Earth First? ELF?
-
<<I would think you would be the kinda fella that would be intelligent enough to be aware of these very obvious differences. This is where your credibility gets shot and you look like the typical hate-filled liberal wacko when you say such stupid things as you so often do.>>
Ahhh. I think I'm starting to see the rules of the game. Pat Buchanan and anyone playing from the right end of political spectrum gets to define the "left" in terms of its wildest and craziest extremes, but let someone playing from the LEFT end of the political spectrum try the same technique and everyone on the right is screaming "FOUL!" at the top of their lungs. Thanks for straightening me out, guys.
-
<<I would think you would be the kinda fella that would be intelligent enough to be aware of these very obvious differences. This is where your credibility gets shot and you look like the typical hate-filled liberal wacko when you say such stupid things as you so often do.>>
Ahhh. I think I'm starting to see the rules of the game. Pat Buchanan and anyone playing from the right end of political spectrum gets to define the "left" in terms of its wildest and craziest extremes, but let someone playing from the LEFT end of the political spectrum try the same technique and everyone on the right is screaming "FOUL!" at the top of their lungs. Thanks for straightening me out, guys.
If you read the article (try clearing your mind first) the reason Buchanan wrote it was because of the very charge you levy against Conservatives which in reality the left is using to smear Tea Party people. Funny how that works; you accuse people of doing what you are doing when in reality you are the only one doing the smearing. Did Buchanan smear or just state facts?
here's an example of what I'm talking about. I hope you have enough brains to see the connection. See link!
http://biggovernment.com/amarcus/2010/03/30/video-the-egg-man-of-seachlight-nevada/ (http://biggovernment.com/amarcus/2010/03/30/video-the-egg-man-of-seachlight-nevada/)
-
Let me know when you find any "Leftists" as dangerous as these wackos.
Does Norman Leboon ring a bell? Earth First? ELF?
OR
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62S4FI20100329 (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62S4FI20100329)
-
Mikey I can see that you are feverishly writing up a reply. Can't wait to see how you spin this one!
-
<<If you read the article (try clearing your mind first) the reason Buchanan wrote it was because of the very charge you levy against Conservatives which in reality the left is using to smear Tea Party people.>>
Well, I read the article again and I could read it a hundred times more, but it does not really change with each re-reading. Buchanan starts off with what he considers are exaggerated claims from Frank Rich and some other source "smearing" the Tea Party nitwits. Verbally out on a limb? Maybe yes.
But Buchanan is not really going to focus on the verbal excesses of the right or the left. He gets right down to the business of comparing which side is the more violent in deed, rather than in word. According to Buchanan, the left wins that contest hands down. As I pointed out in my reply post, Buchanan is actually insulting the intelligence of his readers - - because when you cut away from violent rhetoric and into violent action, there is no question at all about it - - the extreme right wins the contest hands down over the extreme left. As my examples prove conclusively.
<<Funny how that works; you accuse people of doing what you are doing when in reality you are the only one doing the smearing. >>
I accused Buchanan of misrepresenting the violence of the right (basically by ignoring it) and comparing it to the "violence" of the left. I'm still trying to see what your objection to my factual rebuttal actually is.
<<Did Buchanan smear or just state facts?>>
He smeared by "just" stating cherry-picked facts that standing alone would support his ludicrous conclusions. He smeared by ignoring facts that everyone knows about that would have easily contradicted the conclusions that he drew from the cherry-picked facts in isolation from the real history of the events. Hope that answers your question.
<<here's an example of what I'm talking about.>>
An example of nothing except some overheated rhetoric. In terms of which side is actually the more violent, verbal hyperbole from either side is usually irrelevant.
<<I hope you have enough brains to see the connection.>>
Well, I sure as bitchin hell had enough brains to see the irrelevance of your example.
-
To just add to my last post, it's as if Buchanan had reported on a ball game that the Yankees had won 14 to 3 against the Jays by stating that the Jays were much the better team because they scored three runs on the Yankees, never mentioning the 14 that the Yankees had scored on the Jays. Did he "just report the facts?" Sure, just not all the facts.
-
Pat Buchanan and anyone playing from the right end of political spectrum gets to define the "left" in terms of its wildest and craziest extremes, but let someone playing from the LEFT end of the political spectrum try the same technique and everyone on the right is screaming "FOUL!" at the top of their lungs.
Well, Michael Tee regularly attempts to define all of the political right by the wildest and craziest extremes, and regularly insists anyone trying the same think about the political left is not facing reality and/or from Bizarro world. I would say if he doesn't like it when it is used against him, perhaps he should stop using it against others. I would say that, but Michael Tee also regularly assures that whatever tactics he uses are justified because he is right. Go figure.
-
To just add to my last post, it's as if Buchanan had reported on a ball game that the Yankees had won 14 to 3 against the Jays by stating that the Jays were much the better team because they scored three runs on the Yankees, never mentioning the 14 that the Yankees had scored on the Jays. Did he "just report the facts?" Sure, just not all the facts.
You accuse Buchanan of not reporting all the facts and he's not even a reporter, he's a commentator. 24/7 the New York Times and other MSM outlets lie, distort, mislead, and shade the truth but you are OK with the people that call themselves PRESS not doing their job. Plus Buchanan claims to be a Conservative where as the MSM just acts impartial. You are a silly boy Mikey. I betcha $10 bucks you work or used to work at a university or some other liberal institution because you are way far gone. That would have to explain it.
-
An example of nothing except some overheated rhetoric. In terms of which side is actually the more violent, verbal hyperbole from either side is usually irrelevant.
I guess your example about the Michigan militia idiots is just an example of "overheated rhetoric" as well - they hurt no one, did they? Last time I checked, they hadn't even fired their guns at any targets, other than paper ones.
And we have Norman Leboon in the news the same day arrested for having actually fired a rifle into Eric Cantor's office and posting videos online saying that the next bullets will be in his head.
I'd say the Left wins this day.
You also seem to ignore all the firebombing going on lately against targets on the Right.
-
Must fit template, Ami. Must fit his template. All other facts, evidence, and logic to the contrary, be damned
-
Must fit template, Ami. Must fit his template. All other facts, evidence, and logic to the contrary, be damned
Personally I have felt for years that he's just pushing our buttons. For all I know he's a staunch Conservative pretending to be a liberal wack job. I've considered doing it myself but it takes a lot of work and brainpower to pull it off.
-
Must fit template, Ami. Must fit his template. All other facts, evidence, and logic to the contrary, be damned
Personally I have felt for years that he's just pushing our buttons. For all I know he's a staunch Conservative pretending to be a liberal wack job. I've considered doing it myself but it takes a lot of work and brainpower to pull it off.
Well, then that can't possibly be the case now, can it ;)
-
<<I guess your example about the Michigan militia idiots is just an example of "overheated rhetoric" as well ->>
Sure it is, Ami - - with guns and ammo to match.
-
I ask for left-wing wackos as dangerous as the right-wing, starting with the Christian Warriors militia planning to massacre cops, with the guns and ammo already acquired for the task and just ready to go, and so I am offered . . . Norman LEBOON?
This is some kind of fucking joke? Where does a shot at Eric Cantor's head come anywhere close to the carnage of a police massacre? These trained militia guys are following in the footsteps of Timothy McVeigh and the KKK and we are offered as an "equivalent" some wimpy wannabe who can't even shoot straight?
Back to the drawing boards, guys, try again. And again. And again.
<<You accuse Buchanan of not reporting all the facts and he's not even a reporter, he's a commentator. >>
Well he comments on "facts" that are cherry-picked to prove his point, which is a very dishonest kind of commentary. What are you trying to say, that he's not a dishonest journalist, he's a dishonest commentator? BFD.
<<24/7 the New York Times and other MSM outlets lie, distort, mislead, and shade the truth but you are OK with the people that call themselves PRESS not doing their job. >>
I criticize the NYT many times and have told this group several times why I no longer trust it and why I no longer buy it.
<<Plus Buchanan claims to be a Conservative where as the MSM just acts impartial.>>
That's because he's a commentator.
<< You are a silly boy Mikey. I betcha $10 bucks you work or used to work at a university or some other liberal institution because you are way far gone. That would have to explain it. >>
Not even close. I was an active volunteer member of AI for about 15 years and gave up on them when I realized that the real solution to the problem was political.
-
A solution to the problem requires a definition of the problem.
-
<<A solution to the problem requires a definition of the problem.>>
In the case of AI, the problem is primarily the incarceration and torture of political prisoners, which grew while I was there into a broader campaign against the use of torture in general.
(They are also concerned with the death penalty, but since I support capital punishment and always have, I did not take part in their death penalty actions.)
-
<<A solution to the problem requires a definition of the problem.>>
In the case of AI, the problem is primarily the incarceration and torture of political prisoners, which grew while I was there into a broader campaign against the use of torture in general.
(They are also concerned with the death penalty, but since I support capital punishment and always have, I did not take part in their death penalty actions.)
This isn't a political problem?
-
<<This isn't a political problem?>>
Sure it is, and with a political solution. AI was obsessed with being non-political, and it worked (in a very small number of individual cases.)
-
This is some kind of fucking joke? Where does a shot at Eric Cantor's head come anywhere close to the carnage of a police massacre? These trained militia guys are following in the footsteps of Timothy McVeigh and the KKK and we are offered as an "equivalent" some wimpy wannabe who can't even shoot straight?
What police massacre? When did it happen?
I can demonstrate actual shots being fired at a congress critter, you can demonstrate some hot heads in the woods making threats. Seems like my example was the more violent.
After all, a few years ago you were all up in arms when the FBI arrested a leftist bunch in NJ (IIRC) for plotting anti-Bush stuff - they had purchased weapons and were seeking to purchase more. But you and Brass (and I think XO as well) were defending them because they hadn't done anything yet AND WERE UNLIKELY TO DO SO, according to you. Planning is not action, you guys all said.
-
<<I can demonstrate actual shots being fired at a congress critter, you can demonstrate some hot heads in the woods making threats. Seems like my example was the more violent.>>
One lone gunman and a helluva poor shot at that versus a trained corps of militia men on a mission, practicing and organized? I dunno, you don't seem to be much of an expert on risk assessment.
-
One lone gunman and a helluva poor shot at that versus a trained corps of militia men on a mission, practicing and organized? I dunno, you don't seem to be much of an expert on risk assessment.
Trained corps of militia men? ROFLMAO Have you seen the pictures of these guys?
"Out of work, over-weight rednecks" is a better description.
-
One lone gunman and a helluva poor shot at that versus a trained corps of militia men on a mission, practicing and organized? I dunno, you don't seem to be much of an expert on risk assessment.
Trained corps of militia men? ROFLMAO Have you seen the pictures of these guys?
"Out of work, over-weight rednecks" is a better description.
They look like toothless in-bread losers that listen to Dueling Banjos.
-
toothless, overweight, over-age my ass - - this guy looks exactly like any other piece of low-hanging fruit that the army takes in and makes "men" out of.
http://tinyurl.com/yaxfm7g (http://tinyurl.com/yaxfm7g)
If you're going to tell me that a squad of guys like this, even with some older and fatter guys among them, benefiting from training, unit cohesion and discipline, is less dangerous than a lone nut and lousy shot like Leboon, good luck to ya.
-
If you're going to tell me that a squad of guys like this, even with some older and fatter guys among them, benefiting from training, unit cohesion and discipline, is less dangerous than a lone nut and lousy shot like Leboon, good luck to ya.
Most of those pictures were of the state police, not the militia members. Of course, the link you provided goes to the picture of the *one* guy in the group who isn't old or over-weight, or both. And he looks like your typical loser punk kid.
There are reasons why most other militia groups in the area avoided these wackos.
-
Here you go, a picture of these "trained corps of militia men."
(http://www.lipmantimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/huratee-300x192.jpg)
Ohh, I'm quakin' in my boots.
-
<<Most of those pictures were of the state police, not the militia members. >>
As far as I know, the link was to only one photo.
<<Of course, the link you provided goes to the picture of the *one* guy in the group who isn't old or over-weight, or both. And he looks like your typical loser punk kid.>>
LOL. As opposed to the regular U.S. Army recruits, the A-students, the maths and sciences whizzes . . . anyway, he looks like any other U.S. Army recruit, no better or no worse. The lone woman looks like another Lynndie England, only a little more depressed, if that's possible. Except for the age factor of some of them, they don't look any different than any other U.S. soldiers. You can of course believe whatever you want to but if you seriously think that an armed squad of these guys with their training and the other advantages I mentioned are less of a threat than that nutjob Leboon, I wouldn't go showing these posts of yours to any potential emplooyer if you were applying for a job in security.
<<There are reasons why most other militia groups in the area avoided these wackos.>>
Sure there are - - the whole militia movement are are all paranoid nut-cases and serious wackos.
-
I know Michael Tee is ignoring me. Maybe someone else could put this where he will see it.
They Want A Revolution! Amy Cooter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13dN27eVEaw#)
-
Yes, he's been emotionally traumatized apparently by way of having many of his "not-so-truthful" proclaimations, layed out bare for all to see, but Tee still reads yours & mine comments Prince. I've seen how he'll occasionally incorporate a response to someone else, that involved a point I made. So I'm sure he's reading your posts as well. Simply choosing to minimize his damage, under the guise of some supposed noble stand