DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Michael Tee on April 10, 2010, 06:52:32 PM
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The 372nd Military Police Unit, the proud guardians of the Abu Ghraib Prison, only ONE of whose members still remains in prison in the U.S., are returning to Iraq to carry on their illustrious tradition of courageous torture in the face of a helpless enemy, to blaze new trails in sexual sadism and perversion and to further glorify the heroic name of America in the lands of the heathen.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/04/09/shamed-military-police-unit-involved-in-abu-ghraib-to-be-sent-back-to-iraq/ (http://news.antiwar.com/2010/04/09/shamed-military-police-unit-involved-in-abu-ghraib-to-be-sent-back-to-iraq/)
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and Michael who is the Commander-In-Chief sending this unit back to Iraq?
i'll await your
(http://www.bigpinekey.com/images_09/Jan/an_propeller_spinning.gif)
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America was founded on second chances. We all love a good redemption story. Hope it turns out better for the 372nd this time around.
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<<and Michael who is the Commander-In-Chief sending this unit back to Iraq?>>
The Commander in Chief of those evil bastards is Barack Obama. Does that tell you anything about the phony "choice" that was offered to the voters in the 2008 Presidential "election?"
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<<We all love a good redemption story. >>
Here's a great redemption story for yiz: the prisoners of Guantanamo are all set free since there is no case against them anyway and . . . No?
What about: Saddam Hussein finds Jesus and is released to . . . What's that? Too late?
Or: Everyone imprisoned in America for selling dope is let out of . . . No?
Seems "we all" love a good redemption story if it involves giving a bunch of torturers and murderers another chance to torture and murder, but only if the victims were Muslim Arabs.
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Seems "we all" love a good redemption story if it involves giving a bunch of torturers and murderers another chance to torture and murder, but only if the victims were Muslim Arabs.
Yeah that's pretty much the way it is.
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I'm glad it doesn't seem to bother you any.
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No more than Katyn bothered you.
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I'm sure there were reasons for Katyn and they were a helluva lot better than the reasons for Abu Ghraib.
Even though Poland was a highly valued ally in the fight against Nazi Germany, it had its own brand of fascism and anti-Semitism. During the war, Jewish partisan fighters not in Red Army bands were hunted down in the forests and killed by the Polish resistance. Poland was the only country in the world where the massacre of the Jews continued even after the end of the war and the surrender of Nazi Germany, ending only with the accession to power of the first Polish Communist government, which executed the perpetrators of the pogroms.
Despite the general level of anti-Semitic hatred in Poland, there were courageous individuals and groups who went against the mainstream. Zegota was an organization of Polish intellectuals formed to assist and rescue Jews from the Holocaust, at the risk of torture and murder, willingly assumed by the membership. Individual Poles voluntarily ran the same risk to save Jewish relatives, friends and strangers. Sad to say, they were a tiny minority in a country whose leaders, artists and intellectuals and especially religious leaders overwhelmingly preached an unending message of hatred of the Jews
I have a problem with Katyn, alright - - it probably didn't go far enough. Left too many of the bastards alive to continue their work of killing Jews. If any good and decent Polish people were inadvertently added to the list of victims, that would be the only thing that I regret about Katyn. And unfortunately, I would guess that up to 20% of the victims probably didn't deserve to die. But that's war.
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I'm sure there were reasons for Katyn and they were a helluva lot better than the reasons for Abu Ghraib.
Except a good portion of the intelligentsia that were killed by the Soviets were Jews, so if killing Jews was bad then the Soviets were bad. Your rationale for excusing the Soviets just doesn't hold water.
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<<Except a good portion of the intelligentsia that were killed by the Soviets were Jews, so if killing Jews was bad then the Soviets were bad. Your rationale for excusing the Soviets just doesn't hold water.>>
The obvious distinction is that the Polacks were antisemitic bastards who killed the Jews because they were Jews and for no other reason. The U.S.S.R. liquidated intellectuals, Jewish and other, for anti-state activities, support of or from foreign powers, political unreliability and for being enemies of the people or enemies of the Revolution.
The 40-odd Jews lynched by mobs in Kielce, for example, weren't tried on charges, or accused of anything. The local Poles found out that Jewish survivors of the Holocaust were being housed in a local residence and decided on their own to finish the job that Hitler had started. The new Communist government, once it took power, did not support the action, but to the contrary, rounded up and executed the mob's ringleaders, earning Communism even more hatred from the common Polish people and their Catholic priests and bishops.
Being Jewish does not and should not confer any immunity for crimes and betrayals. If intelligensia oppose the Revolution, support the enemies of the people, or espouse an underlying loyalty to a foreign ideology (Zionism for example) then they become "enemies of the people" and deserve to be punished as such. Again, there may have been errors in which Jewish and other intelligensia may have been falsely accused and wrongfully punished, but it should be obvious to any person of even moderate intelligence that there is a huge gap between what the Polish anti-Semites did and what the Russian guardians of the Revolution were attempting to do. There has to be some kind of major distinction drawn between judicial error and massive deliberate murder.
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And people wonder why communism isn't just as evil as naziism. Thanks for the continued clarity, Tee
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And people wonder why communism isn't just as evil as naziism.
Anyone who advocates "liquidating" the "enemies of the people" is just not civilized.
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<<Anyone who advocates "liquidating" the "enemies of the people" is just not civilized.>>
And anyone who advocates tolerating them is just telling progressive forces to put their heads in a fascist noose, as in the case of Salvador Allende.
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And anyone who advocates tolerating them is just telling progressive forces to put their heads in a fascist noose, as in the case of Salvador Allende.
Yup. Dying for their convictions rather than acting like those they despise. That is correct.
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<<Yup. Dying for their convictions rather than acting like those they despise. That is correct.>>
They can and do act differently from those they despise when they are in control. That is the time for them to distinguish themselves by acting for the benefit of the people and not for the enemies of the people.
A failure to liquidate the enemies of the people was not, unfortunately, limited in cost to the single life of Salvador Allende. Literally thousands of good Communists and their progressive allies were tortured and murdered thanks to Allende's misguided sense of what was actually required of him at the time. The torturers and murderers then spent the next 20 years robbing the Chilean working class of every shred of the profit of their own labour to feed their own appetites for unlimited profits.
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And anyone who advocates tolerating them is just telling progressive forces to put their heads in a fascist noose, as in the case of Salvador Allende.
Yup. Dying for their convictions rather than acting like those they despise. That is correct.
touche'