Author Topic: So....when the fit hits the shan  (Read 4648 times)

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sirs

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So....when the fit hits the shan
« on: July 01, 2010, 01:41:47 AM »
Rumor has it, that tomorrow AM, (using a poker analogy) Obama's going to try to call AZ NOT by actually suing the state (because its obvious the Fed doesn't have a legal leg to stand on) but instead he's going to raise their state law, with a proposed Fed law.....Amnesty.  Banking on his Democrat majority, knowing they've already thrown themselves off the election cliff this Nov., why wouldn't they pass an Amnesty bill AND make AZ's law (and any other state considering the same) null & void?  What do they have lose, in possibly gaining 12+million votes??

And don't worry, they'll ram it thru, with reconciliation again, flibuster need not be considered

So....are the Dems that ready for complete political hari kari?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 02:16:21 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Stray Pup

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 03:37:15 AM »
Rumor has it, that tomorrow AM, (using a poker analogy) Obama's going to try to call AZ NOT by actually suing the state (because its obvious the Fed doesn't have a legal leg to stand on) but instead he's going to raise their state law, with a proposed Fed law.....Amnesty.  Banking on his Democrat majority, knowing they've already thrown themselves off the election cliff this Nov., why wouldn't they pass an Amnesty bill AND make AZ's law (and any other state considering the same) null & void?  What do they have lose, in possibly gaining 12+million votes??

And don't worry, they'll ram it thru, with reconciliation again, flibuster need not be considered

So....are the Dems that ready for complete political hari kari?


SSDD.

Seriously this is like watching an old movie.  All the old scenes are there.  The party rises to power over the evil corporate bastards, with promises of liberation for all.  Then it becomes obvious that while the corporate bastards may have been evil, their methods weren't all bad.  Then the ineptitude of the current administration becomes obvious.  Fearing the loss of power, the head of the administration becomes a radical tyrant trying to undo the mess he created all while still claiming to be "bipartisan" and speaking "for the people".  Then, the political seppuku occurs and the next administration takes over.

I just wish I had popcorn.
"What's that word for skiving off work and giving it to somebody less important?"
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sirs

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 03:45:32 AM »
Sounds like the premice to V for Vendetta      ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Stray Pup

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 03:47:53 AM »
Sounds like the premice to V for Vendetta      ;)

Really?  I was going for Ghostbusters.  :D
"What's that word for skiving off work and giving it to somebody less important?"
"Delegate."

sirs

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2010, 04:31:05 AM »
*snicker*
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2010, 09:48:34 AM »
No immigration bill that expels all the illegals will ever pass. Any bill will have to have some provision for illegals to gain residency or buy it, or it will not pass. The Juniorbush bill was what they should have passed, but morons like Tancredo ruined it, and then the stupid GOP dethroned Mel Martinez as party chair, then threw him out of the Senate.

I don't think that the AZ law will accomplish much of anything: enforcing it will require money, and the gaboons running AZ hate taxes more than they even hate illegals.

The GOP can't win a presidential election with less than 40% of the Hispanic vote, and they won't get that.

The GOP sucks, and they deserve to go down. No one needs goddamn Republican ratbag reactionaries.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 11:12:50 AM »
a) Who's advocating proposing a NEW law to expel all illegals??

b) Who said the AZ law would accomplish alot?

c) Who said this was about the GOP and how to get elected??

You're deflection meter apparently is stuck in the red
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Stray Pup

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2010, 01:21:50 PM »
The GOP sucks, and they deserve to go down. No one needs goddamn Republican ratbag reactionaries.

Bit of a strawman, don't you think? Stop trying to appeal to our hearts. Everybody knows Republicans don't have them.  ;)

But it's really not about controlling the Hispanic vote, it's about controlling the votes of those who are legally allowed to vote, and the individual populations in the states.  Sure, the Dems may win Arizona, New Mexico, New York, California... areas with high hispanic population.  But those are four states.  Big states, sure, but as long as the GOP wins Texas, Virginia, and most of the southern states it will even out.

And you say reactionary as though it were a bad thing?  Reacting to a serious problem is something you consider a flaw?  I'll grant you that on the surface, immigration reform may not seem like a huge issue, especially in light of the fact that we have two wars going on, but opening the borders completely isn't any better a solution.

And I will also admit that the wording of the Arizona law is kinda of sketchy and will allow for ordinarily racist cops to expand their abuse of power, and it should be reconsidered.

Since you bring it up, and since I am so new that I don't fully understand anybody's political views completely, could you explain to me how you would resolve this issue?
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sirs

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 06:41:20 PM »
Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

Hoping to breathe new life into the stalled immigration effort, President Barack Obama on Thursday blamed the delay on recalcitrant Republicans whom he said had given in to the "pressures of partisanship and election-year politics."

Republicans responded that Obama's first step going forward must be to secure the border.

In his first immigration speech, Obama took Republicans to task, in particular 11 GOP senators who had backed attempts during the previous Republican administration to tighten the immigration system. He did not call out anyone by name.

Obama dismissed the focus on a "border security first" approach, saying the system is too big to be fixed "only with fences and border patrols." He advocated a comprehensive approach that would call on the government, businesses and illegal immigrants themselves to live up to their responsibilities within the law.

Obama also wants to create a pathway to citizenship for the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S; critics call it amnesty. But Obama said the immigrants must first acknowledge that they broke the law, pay fines and back taxes, perform community service and learn English.

Without setting a timeline, Obama questioned whether the political will exists to get a bill through Congress.

"Reform that brings accountability to our immigration system cannot pass without Republican votes," he said. "That is the political and mathematical reality." In the Senate, Democrats fall short of the 60 votes needed to overcome GOP delaying tactics.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Obama would get the bipartisan support he wants "if he would take amnesty off the table and make a real commitment to border and interior security." Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who is in a tight re-election race and could benefit politically from enacting a broad overhaul, said he was committed to passing a bill this year.

Many immigrant advocates praised the president's comments. They had been pressing him for some time to give such as a speech _ although it broke no new ground _ as a demonstration of his commitment to an issue he promised would be a priority his first year in office.

But an organization of Hispanic conservatives criticized the speech as a "sheer political move" to keep them on board for the November elections. Obama was elected with strong backing from Hispanics and they could tip the balance in several tight races this year.

"President Obama is operating under the false assumption that Latinos are natural-born Democrats who will rally behind his policies in lockstep," said Alfonso Aguilar, executive director of the Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles. "Latinos must not let themselves be deceived by the soaring rhetoric that has replaced meaningful action on immigration."

In Arizona, which is weeks away from enacting a controversial anti-immigrant law that Obama has called "misguided," Republican state Rep. John Kavanagh said he was offended by the president's speech and comments about the new state law.

In the speech, Obama said the law is an understandable expression of the public's frustration with the government's failure to overhaul the immigration system, but it also is ill-conceived, divisive and would put undue pressure on local police departments.

The law requires police enforcing another statute to ask about a person's immigration status if there is reason to believe they're in the country illegally. Immigrant advocates want the Justice Department, which is reviewing the law, to sue Arizona to block it from taking effect this month.

Even before Obama spoke, the path toward getting an immigration bill through Congress was uncertain and it remained so afterward.

"It's really going to be up now to Capitol Hill to answer what has been his very clear call for action," said Angela Kelley, vice president for immigration policy and advocacy at the liberal Center for American Progress.

Damn Politics.  Right Mr. President>>
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 08:39:28 PM »
Obama pushes immigration reform, seeks broad support
Thu Jul 1, 2010

WASHINGTON, July 1 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama renewed his push for U.S. immigration reform on Thursday, reaching out to Hispanic voters despite minimal chances that Congress will pass such legislation this year.

In a broad speech that did not break new policy ground, Obama, a Democrat, called for Republican support to pass a law that addresses the 11 million illegal immigrants in the country without disrupting the economy or violating American values.

Obama has been under pressure to keep his promise from the 2008 presidential campaign to overhaul U.S. immigration rules. A tough new law in Arizona has brought the issue to the forefront of public debate, galvanizing Hispanics, who are an important constituency for November's congressional elections.

The president, speaking at American University, criticized the Arizona law but made no mention of a potential lawsuit by his administration to block it before it goes into affect on July 29. The U.S. Justice Department is expected to file a lawsuit challenging the law shortly.

Obama did not lay out a timetable for passing national reform but said he was ready to pursue the issue if Democrats and Republicans could work together.

"I'm ready to move forward, the majority of Democrats are ready to move forward and I believe the majority of Americans are ready to move forward," he said.

"Reform that brings accountability to our immigration system cannot pass without Republican votes. That is the political and mathematical reality."

(They did it with Healthcare....what the hell has changed?)

Both Democrats and Republicans are aware of that political reality, and some in the opposition party accused the president of pandering to his voter base.

Obama's speech on immigration came a day after he ripped Republicans for opposing financial reform and siding with big oil companies, new signs of a White House gearing up for tough elections in the fall. Democrats, who control both houses of Congress, are widely expected to lose seats.

But with energy legislation, financial reform and the economy topping his agenda, Obama is unlikely to make immigration a centerpiece of his campaign to help Democrats hold on to power.

"In an environment where the Democrats feel vulnerable and where the economy is so bad, trying to say we need to give eventual citizenship to illegal immigrants is a very tough sell politically, and for the public," said Steven Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies.

"IT WON'T WORK"

In a gesture to the opposition party, Obama had rare words of praise for his predecessor, George W. Bush, calling him courageous for working toward immigration reform while he was in office. That attempt proved unsuccessful.

Republican Senator Orrin Hatch characterized Obama's speech as "little more than cynical political pandering to his left wing political base and is more about giving backdoor amnesty to illegal immigrants than real reform."

In May, Obama said he wanted to begin work on immigration reform this year. He supports a system that holds undocumented immigrants "accountable" by having them pay a fine, pay taxes, learn English and become citizens.

"No matter how decent they are, no matter their reasons, the 11 million who broke these laws should be held accountable," Obama said.

He also backs tightening border security and clamping down on employers that hire undocumented workers. He highlighted those points on Thursday, while saying the slow system of processing legal immigrants must be fixed, too.

The president also argued against relying on closed borders alone to fix the problem.

"There are those who argue that we should not move forward with any other elements of reform until we have fully sealed our borders," he said. "Our borders are just too vast for us to be able to solve the problem only with fences and border patrols. It won't work."

Republicans have honed in on the border issue, which is a top priority for voters in border states such as Arizona.

"If he would take amnesty off the table and make a real commitment to border and interior security, he will find strong bipartisan support," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell.

"But attacks on states filling the breach created by the failure of the federal government won't secure the border, grow jobs or create solutions for what we all agree is a broken immigration system," he said.

(Additional reporting by Matt Spetalnick in Washington and Carolina Madrid in Los Angeles; editing by Philip Barbara)


Article


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 08:50:42 PM »
politics to blame?

I thought maybe some who apply might not qualify for entry. not all immigrants are elian

sirs

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2010, 08:52:27 PM »
?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: So....when the fit hits the shan
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2010, 03:40:46 PM »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle