Members of & motivated by "The Religion of Peace" try to assassinate the Pope!

[BT]

The fact remains that applying the actions of the subgroup to the larger group is what you are doing. You give credence to the subgroup speaking in the name of Islam, hijacking the religion, as if their claim automatically was true, whatever it is you are doing that applies what ever bin laden did to what Rauf is trying to do.

And their only option is to renounce their religion, because you have prejudged the fact that what bin laden did was in the name of and at the behest of folks like Rauf.

And in my mind that is wrong.

A week ago the crescent moon shone over ground zero. I'm sure some fool somewhere thinks that is a sign of Allah's approval of what was done.

[sirs]

The fact remains that at no time am I calling for anyone to renounce anything
The fact also remains that the location of this proposed Islamic site is one of poor judgement, IMHO, given the actions of those who have chosen to pervert the name of Islam, in order to justify the murder of innocents, and yet requires not 1 shred of renouncing anything.  Again, that's your illogical leap

None of which points to anything even remotly bigoted or "disdainful" as it relates to the religion of Islam.  Your efforts, not withstanding

[BT]

The fact also remains that the location of this proposed Islamic site is one of poor judgement, IMHO, given the actions of those who have chosen to pervert the name of Islam, in order to justify the murder of innocents, and yet requires not 1 shred of renouncing anything.

The location is one of poor judgment only if you apply the guilt of the subgroup to the larger group. Now you are on record as saying the larger group does not bear the guilt of the smaller group, yet they exhibit poor judgment because...?

[sirs]

The location is poor judgement because 3000+ men, women, and children were murdered in the name of Islam

 

[BT]

So even though you don't agree that the larger group shares the guilt, and that the assessment that the location is wrong is based on the erroneous assumption that the larger group shares the guilt, you are OK with sacrificing your principles because you don't want to what ... tell the people who lost loved ones at ground zero that their misapplication of guilt is wrong?

Talk about profiles in courage....

[sirs]

Excellent, by all means, you go tell those families who lost loved ones on 911 how they need to buck up, move on, turn off their emotions, and show some "courage"

Talk about profiles in compassion.... 

[BT]

Fine. WTC families your reasons for opposing the mosque are wrong.

But i believe i have been doing that for a month now.

But let's take this a step further.

The whole outrage about the attacks on the WTC was that the primary victims and the first responders who died trying to rescue them was that they were innocents. The outrage was that these people were not responsible and unfair targets for Al Queda to take out it's anger upon.

So since when do two wrongs make a right?

Since when should the followers of Islam be held responsible for actions they have no control over. Even you admit that is wrong. so pressuring the innocents to put their center somewhere else because some folks want to presume guilt instead of innocence based on misplaced anger is wrong to it's core.

And this has nothing to do with a lack of compassion. I was just as shocked and angry as the rest of the country on 9/11. But i wonder how much compassion the families feel for the men and women who enlisted in the armed services as a direct result of 9/11 and fought to punish the guilty for that act and the 4000 plus who died in that effort only to discover that the constitution they swore to defend only applies to certain people, and only at certain times and certainly only in certain locations. Wonder how they feel knowing their sons, brothers, fathers and husbands died for a lie.

 

[sirs]

Your premice requires that believe such close proximity of an Islamic mosque to the location of thousands killed in the name of Islam is wrong.  And Miss Henny, no overt supporter of either Bush or Conservatism or our military interventions into the Middle East, & who knows more about Islam than we can possibly ever learn, must also be wrong

We're not, so the only one wrong here, would be yourself, thus your theory of 2 wrongs is moot

[BT]

Your premice requires that believe such close proximity of an Islamic mosque to the location of thousands killed in the name of Islam is wrong.

Really? Is Al Queda building the mosque? You have evidence of this? Because if you don't and it is simply an innocent Muslim community exercising their rights guaranteed under the constitution, then saying they must move because they share the guilt of Al Queda is simply wrong.

And Henny is free to jump in at any time. but just be forewarned that when she first weighed in on this subject she said this:

Well, here's the problem - I find myself becoming "bigoted" in a certain manner. But I am writing from another country where Islam is shoved down my throat 24/7.

I doubt she is "bigoted" but i can understand how she might have resentments.

But if you want her to argue your case for you, since you seem to be having trouble justifying the inconsistencies you present, that's fine.

[sirs]

Miss Henny can clearly speak for herself, and I recall her use of the word bigot, in that if a certain constituency of folks are going to call a person X, regardless of actual realities, then so be it.  it's kind of when the hard core left call Tea party folk racist, because they just have to be, since they don't agree with them

The point is her comments were spot on, as it relates to the piss poor jdgement in demanding the mosque be built no place else but in the shadow of what once was the WTC, where thosands were murdered in the name of that religion

And if you want to try to pull the 1st amendment card on freedom of religion one more time, we can end this now, since it hasn't been, nor ever was about the freedom of religion.  Getting really tired of these continuous misrepresentations of my position.  Especially from one who is ususally so credible

[BT]

This is what Henny said about the Mosque

Surprising take on this, Henny. My argument for the Mosque is also two-fold. As you stated it is Un- American to deny Muslims the right to build their Mosque wherever they choose as long as it conforms to existing building codes. And secondly i don't buy "the salt in the wound" argument because that sanctifies the notion that all Muslims share Bin Laden and his band of Merry Men's guilt. And i just don't buy that.

You know, you're right BT. It just goes to show how jaded I am becoming over here in Muslim-land, also forgetting that American-variety Muslims are a much more pleasant group in general. However, the fact that they are considering that very location smells like a statement to me.

So in essence she suspects that something smells, that a statement might be being made, and for those reasons she is against the location. As if those are valid reasons to treat one group differently than another.

On the other hand Pooch has no problem with the location. And perhaps what informs his position is that he is a member of a religion that some have called a cult. So he might be sensitive to the idea that it is probably a bad idea to treat religious organizations differently.


And as an aside, i suggest that you concentrate more on explaining the inconsistencies in your position, than worrying about how i present mine.

[sirs]

My positions have been crystal clear from the beginning, your efforts not withstanding.  The only inconsistencies are the ones where you proclaim me as saying/implying one thing, while I consistently keep demonstrating how in error you are.

Let's make it easy for you, since your mind has already been made up.......Sirs hates Islam.......declare victory........hit enter

And as soon as Bt sends a form letter to the 911 families to "get over it", then we can truely all feel better

[BT]

So is Al Queda building the mosque?

[sirs]

Pretty dumb question, don't ya think.  And no, Bin Laden doesn't speak for Islam.  And no, Bin laden is not an official cleric.  And no, AlQeada doesn't represent Islam.  They are merely the agents that use Islam as their justification for murder

And since we've already gone over this, adnauseum, I think we're finished 

[BT]

So there is no legitimate reason to be against the mosque.