Author Topic: China vs Google  (Read 1399 times)

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Plane

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China vs Google
« on: December 05, 2010, 09:32:05 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101205/ap_on_hi_te/as_china_wikileaks

Quote
The New York Times said the cable, dated early this year, quoted the contact as saying that propaganda chief Li Changchun, the fifth-ranked official in the country, and top security official Zhou Yongkang oversaw the hacking of Google. Both men are members of the Politburo Standing Committee.



   Propaganda Minister is 5 pegs from the top?
   How far down the chain of command is the Presidents press secretary?

  This supports my opinion that China is fragile, Google any American governer , Senator or Presidential staff member and abounding criticism will be found yet our system is robust enough to continue even while the President himself gets hounded half to death.
    Dictatorship , however beneficient, is a concentration of power into a person or a few persons and this turns the foibles of these few into weaknesses of the nation.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 06:25:56 PM »
I can agree with this. China's leaders today are vastly smarter than Mao and Chou ever were, however. Propaganda is an integral part of US government as well, by the way: it just does not work the same way it does in China. This is not to say that it cannot be every bit as effective of accomplishing the goals of our rulers.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 11:40:16 PM »
china has no internal growth, all tech are derived from other countries. by all counts china should be top tech 5 years ago by copying our tech and modifying it without worry of copy rights laws.

I still hear crickets today. korea is growing but they will hit a development wall very soon . no sleep will slow them slow them down.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 11:59:59 PM »
The People's Republic may not be noted for technological development, but that does not mean that they have no chance of achieving economic progress.

Consider the Lexus. There is nothing new about the Lexus, all the technology in a Lexus was derived from Mercedes and BMW, but Lexus has been eating Mercedes' and BMW's lunch for the last 15 years, because a Lexus, though not original, is both cheaper and more reliable than the Mercedes. And now it appears that Hyundai will do the same thing to Lexus and Toyota.

The fact is that computers are mostly Chinese products, even though the technology is mostly American. The English did not invent the bow and arrow, but they did develop the longbow into a weapon that allowed them to defeat the French.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 01:29:19 AM »
all true.

but we`re a scrambled minded bunch. until they get thier lazy none productive nephew out of the assistance managers job ,things are gonna be slow. the phrase (get the job done) does not exist in china.
note the safety record.

here in american that phrase in respected.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 03:50:14 AM »
the phrase (get the job done) does not exist in china.
here in american that phrase in respected.

Kimba....i've made a decent living from it....Americans wants things done NOW! Yesterday!
My Moroccan friend/coworker still tells me how amazed he is at how Americans get things done
even compared to the French.....he says the sheer pace here from A-Z is phenomenal
He says I would be shocked and probably frustrated at the pace in many other places around the world.
I would think the Germans may have the "getter done now" mentality...but I'm not sure.
The Moroccan is funny...he says "you call Pizza Hut and there is a hot fresh pizza at your door
in a half hour.....that kind of service is just not gonna happen in a lot of places around the world
"
He says Americans are so spoiled and dont know it. But a slower pace is not always a bad thing.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 06:16:06 AM »
There has never been a country like the People's Republic of China. It is at once a developed nation (Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing and several dozen other industrial cities) and the largest underdeveloped population in the world, out in the villages, sending their daughters and to a lesser degree their sons, off to work in the industrial megaplexes, where one girl sending home most of her salary at a plant making shower curtain rings can inject more cash flow into her home village than several dozen families.

It is a First World country with something like colonies galore in the backlands. Not even England in the early 1800's can compare with it.

The growth rate has been at around 10% per year for a decade. No capitalist country has managed that, not even the US after WWI or WWII, where the industrial capacity of Europe was wrecked war.

The growth rate in China could continue for maybe another ten years.

Mao was a total incompetent from an economic point of view. The leaders of the PRC are not at all incompetent, and they do not get the blame when stuff goes wrong: it is that doltish local guy that gets all the blame. Pretty much the opposite of what we have in the US, where people blame Obama for not closing Guantanamo, when it is clearly Congress that has made this impossible.

The US economy is not recovering rapidly because companies are not expanding and hiring, and a lot of the blame lies with the banks, which have a stranglehold on money they will not lend. Companies prefer to work their employees harder, and the employees do so, because there are all those hungry jobless people they know that can replace them.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

bsb

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 10:25:09 AM »
No one knows what will happen in China economically. It could do all the great things it has been predicted to do, or on the other hand it could run into some very serious problems.

It's leaders haven't figured out yet exactly how much control to hold onto and how much to relinquish. The battle with Google is about how much control over the internet they should try and hold onto to. The World Wide Web frightens them.  But in the end they're going to have to get over that because it's a losing battle. They won't be able to control it.



Christians4LessGvt

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 10:34:32 AM »
The US economy is not recovering rapidly because companies are not expanding and hiring...

I hear this line often...mainly from the Left and the Administration.
To me it shows a lack of basic understanding of business.
I hear Obama say "companies need to hire people".
Uh?
How the hell are we supposed to do that?
You think we wouldn't love to do that?
I wish I could hire 1000 new people!
The reason we are not hiring is because our volumes are down 10, 20, 30, 40, 50%!
You think construction companies are hiring carpenters when the company is building 30% less?
You think we are hiring people in our call center when our order volume is down 25%?
Hiring isn't some magical pill....in most cases.....it is in direct relation to volume.
If volume is up.....we hire....if volume is down....we don't hire...
This really isn't that complicated of an equation.....
If perfume counters are selling 50% less perfume...how and why would they hire more people?
It's nuts!
Obama seems to think...
"oh well if CU4's company just hires some people....Poooof!...his volume will suddenly go up"
What a bunch of bullshit!

Companies prefer to work their employees harder

Yes, yes.... let demonize business every chance we get!
Those slave drivers...that react to reality!
What are we supposed to do when business is crashing XO?
Add people and have employees work less hard?
Hello...Earth to reality? Anybody home?

and the employees do so, because there are all those hungry
jobless people they know that can replace them.


If your agenda is to demonize people you could say the same thing about employees
They will leave ya for a 25 cents more an hour.
Why is it when an employee serves his/her interest it's ok with you.
But when a business serves it's interest you need to demonize?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

kimba1

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 12:09:25 PM »
don`t get me wrong, thiers a price for getting things done fast. quality will most likely go down. I`ve always done that to met deadline and never got a complaint. It`s simply the reality. it`s not like machines has dials to make them go faster.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 10:49:42 PM »
The demonization occurs in your mind. Perhaps because you have experience at being a demon.

It is simply a fact that companies are demanding more work from their employees these days. That explains why productivity figures are up. Worker productivity doubles and the workers get maybe 10% more in compensation. That is simply reality.

I used to figure my own productivity where I taught, based on the tuition and the number of students I had. from 1977 to 1985 my productivity tripled, as I was teaching overloads, but my income went up by about 30% in dollars not adjusted for inflation.

Teaching is not a field where it is as easy to increase productivity as much as manufacturing, where new equipment and materials can boost productivity a lot more.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 12:21:52 AM »
"The demonization occurs in your mind. Perhaps because you have experience at being a demon"

Yeah sure XO......
I am hosting a company CHRISTmas Party for 160 this weekend.
How many guts will you be filling this weekend?
How many smiles are going to put on children's faces?
Santa, a Face Painter, and a balloon artist will be there for the kiddos again this year.
If you wanna come and play Bozo the Clown I am sure we could fit ya in.

Rather than a demon...I am nothing but a "head hunter".
People make or break a company.
If I can weed through flakes and find the gems...the company will succeed.
Without the people the company would not exist....
Spoil 'em rotten...and be their sincere advocate
and you get it back tenfold....it's called a "win-win".

"It is simply a fact that companies are demanding more work from their employees these days"

Of course they are....what else could possibly happen as your business shrinks and you
have to lay people off? Reality is what it is...the people...everyone at my company
including management are having to multitask and pull more of the load when there
are less workers than before Obama.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 02:03:55 AM »
I am a Civil Servant.

In the Civil service fewer of us doing the same work is good news for our employing public.

If I worked for a contractor , there might be more motive to expand , because each working employee could possibly earn a bit more for the employer, more is merrier.

How does this happen in reverse ?

Last few years the Civil Service has boomed in size.
Priviate industry has stalled.

kimba1

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Re: China vs Google
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 09:52:25 AM »
public sector is not exactly setup for the needs of the public or for it`s own best interest.

this really happened, a friend of mine was a supervisor and his dept. was assigned to do a special project for some higher up. he simply did not have the man power to do it and requsted more staffing.

so now staffing pulled from his department  to cover the needs in his department.

so he still have the same number of people.

he had no choice but to cut services.