Obama throws Israel under the Bus

[BT]

Seems the only thing both sides in this forum (excluding Henny) have agreed upon is that aid to the Middle east should stop. It would be interesting to see what road that leads to when when it does stop.

[sirs]

Indeed.  Though that should mean it all stops

[Xavier_Onassis]

NO PRESIDENT was referenced that Israel needed to return to its 67borders as a prerequisite for any negotiations

And NEITHER DID OBAMA. He said Pre-1967 borders with MUTUALLY AGREED LAND SWAPS. That is NOT the same.


proof of the claim that Israel wants even "more land"

Okay, do they want the SAME AMOUNT OF LAND? Well, that could be seen as "the 1967 borders with mutually agreed land swaps". I see that this could include more or less territory for either side as well. The only condition is that both sides agree on the deal.
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Do they want LESS land? I do not think that is what Netanyahu meant.

So of it is not the same amount of land or less land, what is left?

There are only three possibilities: more, the same amount or less.

Note that Netanyahu did not say what his conditions were. He just threw a huge hissy fit to show that he could cower our Congress into a bunch of whimpering toadies. I suppose that sells big back in Israel, but it is hardly the image that I like to see my country exporting.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Aid to Israel and Palestine should stop. But I do not see this happening. It is more complicated than it seems on the surface.

Does that mean that American Jews will be barred from donating money to Israel? Or perhaps that such money will no longer be tax deductible?

Of course, there is the Muslim requirement for alms to the poor. Would that mean that the Saudi government could not donate to Palestine? What about Saudi individuals? Would Palestinians working in the Gulf be barred from sending a check to their mother?

And then there is Egypt. Should Egypt be bribed to close the Raffah border as before?

[sirs]

Obama declared that's where it had to begin, Obama declared that peace can't start without that pre-requisate.  NO OTHER PRESIDENT HAS MADE THAT DEMAND.  Floating ideas is not mandating what needs to happen 1st

And the kicker is that NONE OF THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN 1ST.  The 500lb death to Israel gorilla mandate in the room is what needs to be dealt with 1st

And thanks again for demonstrating ZERO proof of the notion that Israel wants even "more land".  The "6 steps from Kevin Bacon" irrational rationalization tactic, isn't going to cut it, I'm afraid

[BT]

It means all US Government Aid to Israel and Palestine should stop.

[sirs]

all means all

[Xavier_Onassis]

And thanks again for demonstrating ZERO proof of the notion that Israel wants even "more land".  The "6 steps from Kevin Bacon" irrational rationalization tactic, isn't going to cut it, I'm afraid

So which is it?

More land or less land.

The same amount of land could EASILY be the 1967 borders with mutually agreed land swaps. That is a VERY FLEXIBLE statement, especially because of the term MUTUALLY AGREED UPON.
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As for the "death to Israel" bit, as I said, Begin and arafat got a Nobel Prize for agreeing to recognize Israel's right to exist/
The Israelis say that they will never negotiate with terrorists, but the FACT IS that they have been holding secret talks with Hamas for years. So that is horsesh!t as well.

What is it that Netanyahu wants, other than to show that the US Congress is a cowering assortment of whimpering toadies?

[sirs]

And yet still no proof of Israel wants more land, despite the (ir)rationalization somersaults. 

What they clearly want is to be left alone, and that doesn't require any land, more or less.  And until the gorilla is dealt with, the status-quo of no land is preferred

[Xavier_Onassis]

That is not what Netanyahu said. Everyone knows that the PLO has recognized Israel's right to exist.

Netanyahu simply threw a tantrum to prevent any negotiations at all.

What will happen is that the UN will have a vote on the issue of Palestinian independence, and our whimpering, subservient Congress will be forced by AIPAC to veto it, and our country will have to take the blame. Naturally, you will blame Obama. But he is trying to do what Juniorbush refused to do, which is to get talks going again.

The Arab world is changing, and the US should do all it can to support self-determination everywhere. This includes Palestine.

[sirs]

We're talking about NOW, Xo.  Right NOW, the Palestinians and Hamas do NOT recognize Isreal's right to exist....the other "state", in this supposed 2 state utopia.   That is ongoing, and until THAT changes, Israel doesn't need to do squat.  Just hunker down and reinforce the lands they do have

And FYI, if the U.S. vetos a Palestinian state resolution, I'll only "blame" Obama if it included a recognition of Isreal's sovereign right to exist and need to address the Anti-israel charter, within the Hamas portion of the Palestinian's Government.  If it was just the latest in Anti-Semetic, pro-Palestinian pandering out of the UN, I'll gladly applaud his veto

[BT]

all means all

That is meaningless. How do you stop private donations? Isn't money speech?

[sirs]

Lemme clarify....Governments

[BT]

Lemme clarify....Governments

And that differs from my statement , how?

[sirs]

You seem to want to make it U.S. Government alone.  I'm referring to all Governments