Author Topic: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare  (Read 5191 times)

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sirs

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egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« on: March 23, 2012, 05:59:52 PM »
All those CKL holders, just itching to kill someone.  They may be surrounding his home, as we speak
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Will the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill Pass in Senate

It's been months in the works, but this week, GOP Louisiana Sen. David Vitter and South Dakota Sen. John Thune introduced concealed carry reciprocity legislation in the U.S Senate. The bill would allow gun owners to carry their guns in states that permit concealed carry, regardless of whether those states require a permit or not, provided the gunholder honors the carry laws of the state he's traveling through. One of the main goals was to allow states to move forward in a direction that permitted concealed carry without permits, should the state so choose.

The bill, called Respecting States’ Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, is substantively identical to language the GOP produced in 2009 and which received 58 of the 60 votes needed for passage.

(IIRC Obamacare didn't even get that many, and somehow passed)

This time around, there are some additional factors that could help this bill make it out of the Senate. For one, the Republican caucus in the Senate simply has more members than it did in 2009. In fact, there are more senators signed on at the bill's introduction than last time--27 to 22, although by the time the language reached the floor as an amendment in 2009, it had 28 cosponsors. Plus, it's an election year, and concealed carry is typically a more bipartisan issue and one that constituents from certain states with Democratic senators would likely be in favor of.

There was also hope that the two parties could put forward a joint concealed carry bill. The Democrats, however, wanted a national standard for concealed carry. In addition, the GOP wanted to allow states to have constitutional carry (concealed carry without issuing a permit). Eventually,  the groups decided to go ahead with the language each one preferred, with the Democrats introducing the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012 earlier this month.

Two of the four Democrats who have signed on to that bill, however, voted for the Thune-Vitter language in 2009 (the others weren't yet in the Senate), so it's more likely they would feel comfortable voting for the GOP bill this time around as opposed to more conservative GOP senators agreeing to a national standard.

It's unclear which way the GOP's current language on concealed carry may eventually be voted on; for example, it could be attached as an amendment to another piece of legislation. If so, whatever bill the concealed carry language is attached to could help determine passage.

So far, there hasn't really been any communication with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's office on the bill (though he voted for it in 2009), but several members of the GOP's Senate leadership are on board; Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is a co-sponsor, as is Republican Policy Chairman Sen. John Barrasso. Thune is also a member of leadership through his role as conference chair.

Damn Constitution
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 06:20:40 PM »
A totally dumb idea.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 06:39:33 PM »
Damn Constitution and Rule of Law. And double damn those pesky facts that demonstrate lower violent crime in those areas with more permissive gun laws and CCW's
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 08:15:12 PM »
Bullshit and you know it.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 08:22:42 PM »
Yea, I realize that's how the left sees the Constitution.  Its kinda of a given, so yea, I know that
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2012, 08:32:06 PM »
It's not in the Constitution that gun permits have to be effective outside of the jurisdiction where they were issued. That is (a) bullshit and you know it or (b) you are just dumber than mud.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 08:38:20 PM »
It's looking to be the law.  But yea, I know how the Constitution to the left is considered BS.  I think we've already been over that though.  Nice of you to still be unable to refute the facts of stats that demonstrate the lower crime rates in more permissve gun law regions vs the higher crime rates in the far more stricter gun law regions.  Just hang onto that 3rd grade potty badmouthing of yours.  It's what you apparently do best
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 09:25:34 PM »
the simple fact that there are more restrictive or less restrictive gun control states upon which you base your crime analysis, shows that the Constitution left it up to the states to decide how they wanted to handle the gun issue. I'm not sure reciprocity for CCW is a foregone conclusion less we find that reciprocity is writ in stone, thus setting precedent for state based statutes including recognition of gay marriage.

sirs

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 03:25:53 AM »
Yes and no......the Constitution is clear, as it relates to the rights of owning/having a firearm.  What the CCW recipricity issue, as I seem to read it, is the Fed indicating that it'd be legal for 1 state's jurisidiction, to carry over into another.  So, from that standpoint, I don't see how this is "being left up to the states"

The facts are clear, as it relates to the ratio of violent crime to less/more restrictive gun laws.  I don't see this legislation as trying to facilitate the (+) of such stats, near as much as trying to be consistent with the rights of gun owners.  Especially those who have gone thru the rigorous process of obtaining their CCW.  Those folks are generally far more responsible and safety conscious with firearms than those who aren't
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 06:12:36 AM »
What this legislation does is grow the power of the feds at the expense of the states.

I don't think the legislation is well  thought out. Reminds me of the uniform requirements for Drivers Licenses which is a trojan horse for a national ID.




sirs

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 11:25:57 AM »
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, since the 2nd amendment isn't a states issue, and the legislation posed isn't limiting what the individual is allowed to do, its limiting what the government can do
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 02:03:10 PM »
CCW is a state licensing issue. I have never heard of a federal CCW, have you?


sirs

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 02:05:57 PM »
CCW is simply a term.  It's not specific to State or Federal, and the legislation posed isn't limiting what the individual is allowed to do, its limiting what the government can do.  That's how it should work vs legislation in expanding what the Government can do...ie Obamination care
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 02:17:09 PM »
Concealed Carry Permits are issued by the state. I don't see where the second even comes into play on this reciprocity scheme of yours. What the federalization of ccw means is the fed will get their hands on setting minimum standards. I am surprised you advocate a larger federal bureacracy.

sirs

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Re: egads.....a potential BsB nightmare
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 03:51:11 PM »
CCW's are a term.  The fact states issues them doesn't make it a states-only possession.  Otherwise, that's what youd see...person A is a CA CCW...person B is a RI CCW.  Both persons are simply CCW holders.  And the legislation posed isn't limiting what the individual is allowed to do, its limiting what the government can do.  That's how it's supposed to work vs legislation in expanding what the Government can do. 

Nice use of the word "scheme" though.  Let's make support of this nefarious now   ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle