Author Topic: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?  (Read 4887 times)

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sirs

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Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« on: December 11, 2012, 02:50:46 PM »
I mean, they've banned handguns.  So by defacto leftist think, gun crime should be nearly extinct.  How on earth could gun crime be going up??

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The Government's latest crime figures were condemned as "truly terrible" by the Tories today as it emerged that gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year.

Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed.

Firearms were used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the 12 months to last April, up from 7,362.

It was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise and there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year than the previous peak in 1993.

Figures showed the number of crimes involving handguns had more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

With new recording procedures taken into account the actual overall rise was just 2%, the Home Office said.

Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said: "These figures are truly terrible.

"Despite the street crime initiative, robbery is massively up. So are gun-related crimes, domestic burglary, retail burglary, and drug offences.

"The only word for this is failure: the Government's response of knee-jerk reactions, gimmicks and initiatives is not working and confused signals on sentences for burglary will not help either.

"The figures will continue to be dreadful until the Government produces a coherent long term strategy to attack crime at its roots and get police visibly back on our streets."

Gun crime would not be cracked until gangs were broken up and the streets "reclaimed for the honest citizen by proper neighbourhood policing", he added.

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Simon Hughes said the figures must prompt "a new, tougher approach" towards people who carry guns.

"Gangs which use and glorify guns as status symbols must be relentlessly targeted by the police," he added.

Home Office statistics showed gun crime has soared by nearly 600% since 1978 - when there were 1,437 firearms offences.

Gun crime has also increased by 65% since 1996, the year before Labour came to power.

Publishing today's figures, Home Office minister John Denham said: "I am concerned at the significant rise that we have seen in firearm offences.

"The number of male homicide victims of shootings was up 41% on the previous year and the proportion of crime in which firearms were used increased from 0.3% to 0.4%.

"We announced earlier this week that we would be introducing a five-year minimum sentence for possession of a firearm as well as new offences to tighten up the law on air weapons and replica firearms.

"The Home Secretary is holding a round table meeting tomorrow with key groups to make sure we are doing all we can to tackle gun crime."

He went on: "The overall crime picture shows a lot of progress.

"We must target our efforts on those areas that have not been moving in the right direction."
Domestic burglary figures increased 7.9% (or increased 5% when adjusted), figures which are likely to embarrass ministers in the wake of the Lord Chief Justice and Lord Chancellor's comments on jailing burglars.

Drug offences rose 12.3% and robbery was up 14.5% (up 13% adjusted).

The number of homicide victims killed by firearms increased 32%, or 23 cases, in the year to April 2002.

Overall there was a 1% rise in the number of homicides to 858 in England and Wales.
Violence against the person soared by 28% in the three months to September last year, which the Home Office adjusted to a 4% rise.

Over the same period sex offences were up 25.6%, but ministers said both crime categories had been inflated by changes to the way police record crime.

Three-quarters of firearms offences during the year, excluding air guns, took place in just five police forces: Metropolitan (42% of the total), Greater Manchester (14%), West Midlands (13%), West Yorkshire and Merseyside (both 3%).

The Association of Chief Police Officers' spokesman on crime policy, Paul Hampson, said: "The recent rise in firearms offences concerns all of us.

"Acpo is very supportive of the Government's intention to strengthen the law in relation to illegally-held firearms."

On burglary, Home Office statistics chief Professor Paul Wiles said the updated British Crime Survey (BCS), also published today, showed domestic burglary had fallen 7%, while recorded crime showed a "very tiny" increase of 2% in adjusted figures for the three months to September.

"The only sensible judgment from that is that we have a stable burglary position," he said.
Mr Denham added that the survey also showed there was a "worrying lack of confidence in the criminal justice system" with 44% of adults believing it was effective in bringing people to justice.

It was a priority of the Government to tackle that issue this year, he added.

Research from the BCS showed that less than half of adults (44%) believe the criminal justice system is effective in bringing people to justice.

Ministers claim that because the BCS is based on comprehensive victim-based research it is a more authoritative measure of crime.

Mr Denham said the survey showed that all crime was down by 7%, violent crime was down by 2%, domestic burglary was down by 7% and vehicle theft by 14%.

He said the survey trends since 1997 showed all crime down by 27%, burglary by 39%, vehicle theft by 32% and violent crime by 26%.

The Shooting Sports Trust said the rise in armed crime proved that strong measures against guns following the Dunblane massacre were "a mistake" and warned moves to remove fake guns from the streets could drive more criminals to obtain real firearms.

Chief executive of crime reduction charity Nacro, Paul Cavadino, said: "The statistics show that crime in England and Wales is continuing to fall. This must be welcomed."


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 04:30:53 PM »
Ooo, this is going to burn a pair of liberals' britches, all the more     8)

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Violent crime in the United States fell for the fifth consecutive year in 2011 with murder, rape and robbery all going down, although crime remains a serious problem in many urban areas, the FBI said on Monday.

The report of all crimes reported to police nationwide showed slightly more than 1.2 million violent incidents nationwide, while property crimes hit a nine-year low.

Compared with 2010, the new figures show violent crime down 3.8 percent overall. Property crime was down 0.5 percent.

Among violent incidents reported to police, murders were down about 0.7 percent, robberies dropped 4 percent, aggravated assaults declined 3.9 percent, and forcible rapes were down 2.5 percent.

Newark struggles with police cuts, crime Despite the positive trend, crime remains a serious problem in many urban pockets riddled with gangs, drugs, and poverty. (and not surprising, higher gun restrictions)

There were 14,612 murders last year, on average one every 36 minutes. That's a small decline from 14,722 in 2010, but it's a decrease of nearly 17 percent from a decade ago.

Most victims were male and in cases where race was known, 50 percent were black and 46 percent were white.

Statistics showed 514 murders in New York and 431 in Chicago.

Guns were used in two thirds of the nation's murders last year, 41 percent of robberies, and 21 percent of aggravated assaults, the report showed.

The closely watched Uniform Crime Reports do not include explanations for the consolidated figures, and the FBI does not comment on the data.

However, criminologists point to a variety of factors for the continuing decline in overall violence. They cite a more settled crack cocaine market, an increase in incarcerations, an aging population, data-driven policing, and changes in technology that include a big increase in surveillance cameras.

James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University, said crime has continued to decline from a peak in the 1990s but now is decreasing at a slower rate.

"I call it the limbo stick effect," Fox said. " You can only go so low. You're never going to get down to zero crime."

The FBI crime statistics differed from a telephone crime survey released by the Justice Department early this month. That report actually showed crime increasing last year, but attributed the change to a jump in simple assaults.

Fox said many of those assaults described to interviewers were non-injury pushing and shoving incidents not reported to any law enforcement agencies.

He also noted the increase that the Justice Department reported was from an all-time low in the crime rate the previous year, suggesting crime is entering a low level where police officials hope it will stay for some time.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 05:23:24 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 06:04:00 PM »
The purpose of a car is not to be driven by drunks and kill people.

The purpose of guns IS to kill people, or threaten to kill them. The answer should be obvious to the dimmest of wits, and yet, it does not seem to be.

Since sirs thinks it is not valid to compare one country with another, why is he comparing the UK with the US?

There is little or no logic in these stupid defenses of insanity. One can only hope that the Darwin Effect will diminish the number of gun toting morons.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 07:05:45 PM »
The purpose of a car is not to be driven by drunks and kill people.

The purpose of a gun is to defend oneself, especially at a distance, and is not to be used by drunks or to kill people, unless they have no other choice


Since sirs thinks it is not valid to compare one country with another, why is he comparing the UK with the US?

Not necessarily making a comparison, as much as highlighting the flawed notion that greater gun restrictions leads to a supposed safer society.  Here we have a country with an outright ban on firearms, watching their violent crime, especially with guns going up, while this country with its "gun culture" is watching violent crime go down, except of course in those high urban areas where ironically, gun restrictions are much greater.


There is little or no logic in these stupid defenses of insanity. One can only hope that the Darwin Effect will diminish the number of gun toting morons.

Which does squat to refute the above facts of a country with a ban on guns watching gun crimes going up, but a country like the U.S. with its supposed pervasive gun culture watching its violent crime going down....especailly in those areas with more permissive gun laws

Also still waiting for this massive list of mass murderers who apparently had gun permits to carry one, per YOUR claim
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 07:36:59 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 08:13:25 PM »
Everything is ironic to you because you are so frigging stupid that you do not think rationally.

Demographics has more to do with violent crime than gun ownership. The higher the percentage of young people, the more violent crime. People in US cities are younger on average.

Gun crime is going down because the population is older and less violent.

The UK has far LESS gun crime than the US, and that is because there are fewer guns.

It does no good to look up statistics for you, you won't believe than anyway. You will never admit that you are full of crap, even when it is obvious.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 08:46:50 PM »
Everything is ironic to you because you are so frigging stupid that you do not think rationally.

Amazing how you have this knee jerk requriement to start any discussion with 3rd grade insults.  It's like its in in your DNA.  But let's attempt to demonstrate the continued error in your irrational ways


Demographics has more to do with violent crime than gun ownership. The higher the percentage of young people, the more violent crime. People in US cities are younger on average.

Yet you're the 1st person to completely disregard demographics to condemn guns, when they're used for crimes, sighting non-violent crimes by the Bernie Madoffs of the world, all the while ignoring the decrease in violent crime in areas with more permissive gun laws and increasing crime in areas with higher gun restrictions, if not out and out bans


Gun crime is going down because the population is older and less violent.

You mean, the U.S. stopped having children?  And in the UK, they're obviously not getting older apparently.  Kinda like Logan's Run, where when you get to a certain age, you "move on"

And we stopped selling all those cool violent video games??  They're only being sold in the UK now?  Wow


The UK has far LESS gun crime than the US, and that is because there are fewer guns.

Because that have a fraction of the population we have.  Of course they're going to have fewer guns.  FACTS remains that
- their gun crime is going UP. 
- Our violent crime is going DOWN. 
- They have a gun BAN. 
- We have the 2nd amendment
- Violent crime in the U.S. is far higher in urban areas where there happens to be higher gun restrictions
- Violent crime in the U.S. is far lower on areas with more permissive gun laws and right to carry


It does no good to look up statistics for you, you won't believe than anyway.

Of course I would, IF you were to provide any, from a credible source.  Hell I'd even consider it if you simply provided something from ANY source.  You won't however, not because of what I may or may not believe, but because you have squat to back the accusation up to begin with.  Bravo

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 09:38:06 PM »
- Violent crime in the U.S. is far higher in urban areas where there happens to be higher gun restrictions and the average age is lower
- Violent crime in the U.S. is far lower on areas with more permissive gun laws and right to carry and the average age is higher.

You will continue to live in your fantasy world no matter what I say, and I don't give a damn.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 10:34:45 PM »
It is really hard to get these apples to match those apples.

The aging of the population is greater in Europe , and the guns availible to buy per capata is much lower.

In England , "gun crime" includes stuff that Americans take no notice of , and in the US when your discourage an attacker, by showing him his potential of injury , nothing gets reported.

A scientific study of this question would be exausting , probly the reason no one is doing a really scientific study, that, and because, no one cares to have a study with enough rigor to possibly disprove his own opinion.

sirs

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 11:55:11 PM »
- Violent crime in the U.S. is far higher in urban areas where there happens to be higher gun restrictions and the average age is lower
- Violent crime in the U.S. is far lower on areas with more permissive gun laws and right to carry and the average age is higher.

You will continue to live in your fantasy world no matter what I say, and I don't give a damn
.

Actually it's called reality.  You should visit it sometime.  Especially with the notion that the UK is apparently not getting any older.  But what's cool is you conceding that the the more mature the person, the safer they apparently are with guns.  I guess that's something, though the continued responding to me, minus any reference to back up your earlier claims about permit carrying mass murderers, speaks volumes as to the validity of the claim.......as in not
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 12:15:15 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BSB

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 03:22:09 PM »
"The purpose of a gun is to defend oneself..."

There is no purpose, in terms of defensive or offensive, built into a gun. The purpose built into the weapon is to operate effectively. Offensive or defensive uses are dictated by the operator.


BSB
 

P.S. Of course anything we post is subject to the dictates of His Majesty.

BSB

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 03:45:15 PM »
Here's a few fast draw holsters for you Cowboy Sirs. Lets get it on. Everybody arm themselves and may the best man/woman win.

http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx/-/www~mernickleholsters~com/fd/bmfd_7a~html


BSB




Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 04:48:48 PM »
SIRS.....I've already bought two guns since the election,
hope to get one before the end of the month.



"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Say it ain't so......gun crime up.....in the UK?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 04:59:26 PM »
Here's a few fast draw holsters for you Cowboy Sirs. Lets get it on. Everybody arm themselves and may the best man/woman win.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I already have a good holster.  And if you come at me with an intent to hurt me or my family, you'll go down.  Simple as that.  THAT's why I have one, to defend myself from someone who's intent is potentially deadly

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle