Author Topic: Facts without context seldom have meaning and are used by shameless liars  (Read 3846 times)

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http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2007/03/16/clinton_attorneys/print.html






Blame Bill

Once again, Republicans are using the Clinton dodge -- he did it too! -- to justify the Bush administration's unjustified firing of eight U.S. attorneys.
By Joe Conason

Mar. 16, 2007 | Whatever else Bill Clinton is or was or someday may become, he will forever remain the favorite scapegoat for Republicans in trouble. When they're caught, they always point at him -- just as they are doing now in the midst of the scandal over the political dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys and growing demands for the resignation of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales for his role in the matter.

From the Drudge Report to the Fox News Channel to the Wall Street Journal editorial page, the usual suspects are shrieking in unison:

Bill Clinton fired a lot of U.S. attorneys too! In fact Clinton was worse because he fired all of them at once! And the Democrats didn't complain when Clinton did the same thing!

If those wails are loud enough, hapless mainstream journalists tend to repeat the same bogus accusations. Phony analogies and bad history gush out in a toxic stream of informational sewage. Then somebody (sigh) debunks those claims, just like someone hoses down the street after a parade of circus elephants.

So let's begin this journalistic sanitation project with a question. Was the firing of eight U.S. attorneys by George W. Bush last December in any way comparable to the dismissal of the entire corps of U.S. attorneys by Clinton in 1993? Even the dumbest pundit in America should be able to figure out that the answer is no -- because every president receives the resignations of all political appointees, including U.S. attorneys, at the beginning of his term.

Outraged Republicans can reassure themselves on this matter by forgetting about Clinton for a moment and thinking back to the dawning days of the sainted President Reagan. On May 9, 1981, according to the Washington Post, the Reagan administration was well on its way to replacing all of the U.S. attorneys. A Justice Department spokesman told the Post that William French Smith, the new attorney general, had received nominations for 55 of the 94 U.S. attorney positions so far. Smith was taking nominations, of course, because those positions needed to be filled. As the Post helpfully explained: "Although U.S. attorneys are appointed for four-year terms, it is customary for them to submit their resignations at the start of a new administration."

When the president fires a carefully selected group of his own U.S. attorneys in the middle of his second term for reasons that appear to be political, that's different from what Clinton (and Reagan) did. The difference is not in the rule that allowed Bush and Clinton and Reagan to dismiss U.S. attorneys -- which is that those appointees serve at their pleasure -- but in the reasons behind their actions.

Yet certain conservatives now claim -- as some of them did in 1993 -- that Clinton fired all of those U.S. attorneys merely as a smoke screen for his real motive. They insinuate that he wanted to protect Rep. Dan Rostenkowski, the powerful Illinois Democrat then under investigation by Jay Stephens, the Republican U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia. (A few have also suggested that Clinton wanted to get rid of the Republican U.S. attorney in Little Rock, Ark., to protect himself and his friends from investigation, a completely fraudulent claim that I examine in the current edition of the New York Observer.)

By firing Stephens, Clinton supposedly meant to hobble the Rostenkowski probe. Peevish about his firing, Stephens himself held a press conference to voice the same suspicions.

There is one pretty obvious flaw in that theory.

On May 31, 1994, Eric Holder, the Democratic successor to Stephens, brought a 17-count indictment against Rostenkowksi -- who eventually pleaded guilty to mail fraud and went to prison. This outcome, with an indictment of one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress arriving in the middle of the midterm election campaign, scarcely helped Clinton or the Democratic Party. Many observers believed, on the contrary, that the Rostenkowksi indictment helped the Republicans win the sweeping November victory that gave them control of the House of Representatives for the first time in more than four decades.

Following the Rostenkowski indictment at least two more Democrats in Congress -- Rep. Mel Reynolds, D-Ill., and Rep. Walter Tucker, D-Calif. -- were indicted later that summer, as the fateful Election Day approached. Neither President Clinton nor Attorney General Janet Reno made any attempt to interfere with those decisions.

As a method of escaping responsibility and distracting gullible commentators, the Clinton dodge is now a classic maneuver for Republicans and conservatives. Back in 2002, when Bush was in trouble over his friendship with Enron's Kenneth Lay, the right-wing media insisted that Clinton had once hosted a White House sleepover for Lay. That diversion was an utter falsehood, as any of those who repeated it could easily have determined. It's a fake this time, too -- and it shouldn't distract anyone from holding Gonzales, Karl Rove and all the other authors of the current disgrace to account.


Michael Tee

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Excellent article, Knute, and thanks.

It's funny, as soon as I saw the "Clinton did it too" captions, I knew they had to be bogus, although I didn't know the reason why.  I just had the feeling that those Republicans are so full of shit that they lie automatically, and blaming Clinton for everything is the first lie that comes to their lips.  Also, since this is one hell of a major scandal, and they were ready to crucify Clinton over a fucking blow job, I just knew without thinking that if Clinton really HAD done anything of this magnitude, there's no way that those crypto-fascists would have slept on it, it would have been blown up bigger than the Teapot Dome.

Hopefully, the American electorate is going to have the same reaction as I do to anything Republicans say from now on.  Just recognize it for the desperate and pathetic bullshit that it is.

BT

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What Conason is pointing out is the wheels of justice are not obstructed simply because a US Attorney is replaced.

Like has been said numerous times, this is a molehill viewed through binoculars.

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What Conason is pointing out is the wheels of justice are not obstructed simply because a US Attorney is replaced.

Like has been said numerous times, this is a molehill viewed through binoculars.

You really suffer from the worst case of RW myopia ever seen. The point Conason  is making is this
>>>When the president fires a carefully selected group of his own U.S. attorneys in the middle of his second term for reasons that appear to be political, that's different from what Clinton (and Reagan) did. The difference is not in the rule that allowed Bush and Clinton and Reagan to dismiss U.S. attorneys -- which is that those appointees serve at their pleasure -- but in the reasons behind their actions.<<<

Even if this were a molehill. It is the molehill that frequently trips the horse and kills its rider.

Plane

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The importance of this issue is how easily and completely it demonstrates to the public that the Presidents critics are hypocritical .

How eagerly and desprately they are searching for moehills , and how seldom and weakly they perform any self examination.

hnumpah

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The importance of this issue is how easily and completely it demonstrates to the public that the Presidents critics are hypocritical .

I thought the importance of this issue was that it demonstrates that, even though the right claims to hold itself to a higher standard, when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they immediately respond by hauling out the old 'Clinton did it too' excuse rather than going ahead and taking responsibility for their actions.
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Plane

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The importance of this issue is how easily and completely it demonstrates to the public that the Presidents critics are hypocritical .

I thought the importance of this issue was that it demonstrates that, even though the right claims to hold itself to a higher standard, when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they immediately respond by hauling out the old 'Clinton did it too' excuse rather than going ahead and taking responsibility for their actions.


You got a point there , but not a sharp one.

Clintondid not get nearly as much criticism for being exactly ten times as bad.

Exactly ten times , do the math.

sirs

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The importance of this issue is how easily and completely it demonstrates to the public that the Presidents critics are hypocritical .

I thought the importance of this issue was that it demonstrates that, even though the right claims to hold itself to a higher standard, when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they immediately respond by hauling out the old 'Clinton did it too' excuse rather than going ahead and taking responsibility for their actions.

That'd only hold water if the right were jumping up and down at the 90+ firings under Clinton.  Last time I checked, they hadn't.  Thus the "Clinton did it too" excuse isn't actually applicable, since he wasn't being railed on as getting "caught with his hand in the cookie jar".  What's being brought up was the overwhelming silence when it happened under Clinton.  Thus the more applicable hypocritical charge being fermented now by the ABB crowd and mainscream media folk
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 02:44:25 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

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The importance of this issue is how easily and completely it demonstrates to the public that the Presidents critics are hypocritical .

I thought the importance of this issue was that it demonstrates that, even though the right claims to hold itself to a higher standard, when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they immediately respond by hauling out the old 'Clinton did it too' excuse rather than going ahead and taking responsibility for their actions.

That'd only hold water if the right were jumping up and down at the 90+ firings under Clinton.  Last time I checked, they hadn't.  Thus the "Clinton did it too" excuse isn't actually applicable, since he wasn't being railed on as getting "caught with his hand in the cokkie jar".  What's being brought up was the overwhelming silence when it happened under Clinton.  Thus the more applicable hypocritical charge being fermented now by the ABB crowd and mainscream media folk

You are only proving your lack of intelligence and discernment by thinking that the quantity of an act trumps the quality of it and that contect does not matter. To ask for everyones resignation at the beginning of ones term is normal and even was done by your St. Ronnie of Raygun. To do it in the middle is rare and only done by crooks and bullies like W and usually to cover up their evil doings just like Nixon & his Coxsackers. Spin all you will , the US is finally coming out from under your evil ether .

domer

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I will speak definitively on this matter. IF (note the subjunctive) the firings of the eight US Attorneys, or any of them, were motivated by political considerations emanating from those individuals' handling of cases clearly within their purview, then the actions of the administration were improper, akin to an obstruction of justice by one apt analogy.

Mucho

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I will speak definitively on this matter. IF (note the subjunctive) the firings of the eight US Attorneys, or any of them, were motivated by political considerations emanating from those individuals' handling of cases clearly within their purview, then the actions of the administration were improper, akin to an obstruction of justice by one apt analogy.

In the case of our Carole Lam from SD that appears at least crcumstantiaaly to be the case. She had just prosecuted and received a confession from Randy"Duke " Cunningham and was going after his co-conspirators who are heavy Repub donors. She was also close to indicting )believe it or not) Rep Jerry Lewis for similar shenanigans. Perhops these unearthed emails will shed more light & proof on that or like the criminals they are, the Repubs will snitch on everyone else like Cunnigham is beginning to do.

hnumpah

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You got a point there , but not a sharp one.

Sharp enough, and the article makes it...

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...every president receives the resignations of all political appointees, including U.S. attorneys, at the beginning of his term.

Look it up. Cabinet members, ambassadors, US attorneys - by custom, they all tender their resignations when a new president is sworn in. Them the new CinC wants to keep, he keeps, and them he wants to get rid of, he replaces. That isn't the case with Georgie-boy; his administration seems to want to fire the ones that aren't toeing the party line.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

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You got a point there , but not a sharp one.

Sharp enough, and the article makes it...

Quote
...every president receives the resignations of all political appointees, including U.S. attorneys, at the beginning of his term.

Look it up. Cabinet members, ambassadors, US attorneys - by custom, they all tender their resignations when a new president is sworn in. Them the new CinC wants to keep, he keeps, and them he wants to get rid of, he replaces. That isn't the case with Georgie-boy; his administration seems to want to fire the ones that aren't toeing the party line.

In recent history , who has accepted the whole set of resignations?

hnumpah

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In recent history , who has accepted the whole set of resignations?

Dunno. Look it up it it interests you; though that is not the point here.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

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In recent history , who has accepted the whole set of resignations?

Dunno. Look it up it it interests you; though that is not the point here.

Then the point here is that Clintn did not suffer the same attacks for doing the same thing.