One place the Surge is working

[Michael Tee]

<<How about normalcy in the sense of being able to go to market without worrying about being kidnapped beheaded shot or mutilated by competing gangs of thugs or militias. >>

How about normalcy in the sense of being masters in their own house, owners of their own natural resources, AND with the invaders gone and the death squads they and their puppets organized and armed dead or in jail?

[BT]

......and the death squads they and their puppets organized and armed dead or in jail?..../quote]


Yeah. Iran needs to butt out.

[Michael Tee]

Oh, right, I forgot - - IRAN created the death squads.

LMFAO.

[BT]

You don't think  Iran has direct influence over Al Sadr?

It's a coincidence that he runs to Tehran every time things heat up in Sadr City?

Please!

[Michael Tee]

<<You don't think  Iran has direct influence over Al Sadr?>>

You don't know and I don't know who, if anyone, in Iran has "direct influence" on al Sadr.  For that matter, nobody knows (or will say publicly) who, if anyone, in Amerika has "direct influence" on al Sadr.  All that I am certain of - - absolutely certain - - is that there are people both in Iran and in Amerika who would LIKE to have "direct influence" on him.  To what extent those goals have been realized, it is impossible for us to know.

<<It's a coincidence that he runs to Tehran every time things heat up in Sadr City?>>

Not as big a coincidence as the rise in Shi'ite death squads following Negroponte's tour of duty.  Not as big a coincidence as the fact that after the failure of one lie after another to justify the invasion and occupation, the increase of death squad "sectarian" killings came just when the U.S. needed a new reason to be in Iraq, the first two or three lies having already been exploded.  You cannot exclude the U.S.A. as the primary sponsor of Shi'ite death squad killings.  Or even as the cause of the explosions that reportedly are turning the people against the "foreign jihadis" who allegedly are setting them.  The source of the most recent explosions is very much an open question, IMHO.

Besides which, I don't think he "ran to Teheran" more than once that I can recall; and providing refuge to a man whose life is in danger would be as good a move for someone who WANTS direct influence as it would be for someone who already HAS direct influence.  In other words, the fact that al Sadr has sought refuge in Iran, and that Iran has provided it, does not prove a thing about how much influence they actually have over him.

[BT]

You don't know and I don't know who, if anyone, in Iran has "direct influence" on al Sadr

Certainly indisputable facts backing your claims has never been an issue for you before. why should the rules be different for others who make claims based on circumstantial evidence? And Sadr has been to Tehran twice or three times just in the last year alone. 

[Michael Tee]

<<Certainly indisputable facts backing your claims has never been an issue for you before. why should the rules be different for others who make claims based on circumstantial evidence?>>

It's the nature and quality of the circumstantial evidence that is in question, not the fact that it is circumstantial.  The only evidence that you have of Iranian influence over the guy is his trips to Iran, his "refuge" there, if you will.  Granting of refuge, as I have pointed out, is as consistent with wanting to have influence over an individual as it is with actually having influence.

So the problem with your circumstantial evidence is not that it is circumstantial, but that it is equivocal.

<< And Sadr has been to Tehran twice or three times just in the last year alone. >>

Well, that's my mistake.  It's his closest neigbour and there's no reason why he shouldn't go there two or three times.  He has a lot in common with them religiously and maybe politically as well.  I've been to the U.S.A. a lot more than just two or three times in the last year but that does not mean that anyone there has any "direct influence" over me.  That's just nuts.

[Xavier_Onassis]

And the cost of automobiles on highways in lives and treasure dwarfs the cost of the Iraqi War.

Driving is bogus.
===========================================================
Americans use their cars to drive to work, to shop, to perform a million daily chores.
Auto trips are necessary. Perhaps we could get by better with busses and trains, but in most of the country, this is not an option.

The war in Iraq was and is UNNECESSARY. It didn't need to happen, and it doesn't need to continue. Money spent on Juniorbush's war is pissed away to the benefit of a very few in the defense industries.

I fail to see how what you say makes any sense at all.

[_JS]

You don't think  Iran has direct influence over Al Sadr?

It's a coincidence that he runs to Tehran every time things heat up in Sadr City?

Please!

Most of the casualties have come from Sunni militias Bt.

Also, the current Prime Minister and President have taken refuge in Iran as well. By your logic, Iran has direct control of them too.

What is it with you all and Iran? Why are they the focus of so much venom when they aren't even a part of the war?

[Christians4LessGvt]

in reality most of the hot spots in the entire middle east and elsewhere are in fact proxy wars between the west and iran.

[Michael Tee]

Do you think the West Bank Palestinians are proxies for Iran?

Do you think the Taliban are proxies for Iran?

[Christians4LessGvt]

Do you think the West Bank Palestinians are proxies for Iran?

gaza absolutely is

here is a paragraph from mort zuckerman us news world report magazine:

Hamas seized Gaza by the methodical, barbaric exercise of terrorism. Opponents were made to jump off high-rise buildings; young children were shot in cold blood, often in front of their parents, or the reverse: Mothers and fathers were shot execution style in front of their children. Other Palestinians were permanently crippled with shots fired from the back of the leg so that the kneecap shattered when the bullet exited. Clerics, mosques, and churches were attacked. The presidential palace and the home of Yasser Arafat were looted, not sparing even Arafat's Nobel Peace Prize medal. Hamas-controlled Gaza is now an "Islamist emirate," a new power center for Iran and Syria. Gaza is a new location for every brand of radical Islamist from al Qaeda to Hezbollah to meet and conspire now that the "treacherous apostates," i.e., Fatah, are defeated. The radical extremists are on the march, and the West is in retreat.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/070715/23edit.htm

[Michael Tee]

Zuckerman's one of the most fanatical Zionists in the U.S. establishment.  An absolutely brilliant guy, BTW, with impeccable academic aswell as business credentials.  But I would not trust a word out of his mouth on Israel-Palestinian issues.  He is DEFINITELY a partisan.  However, I tend to think that Gaza is coming under Iranian influence through Hezbollah - - that's why I limited my question to the West Bank.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Do you think the Taliban are proxies for Iran?

Yes, I think there is evidence that some parts of the Iranian government are using arm shipments to the Taliban in a proxy war with the United States.


KABUL: In public, Afghanistan has played down US and British allegations that Iran is feeding weapons to Taliban insurgents, but in private, officials here say the charges are true - and worrying.

A serious debate is under way in President Hamid Karzai?s administration about Iranian support to both the Taliban and emerging opposition political parties, several officials told AFP. The government is in a difficult position: it is unwilling to sour relations with another neighbour or become involved in the heated US-Iran dispute, but it is also afraid Afghanistan will again become a battleground for more powerful nations.

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said this month that given the large number of weapons coming into Afghanistan from Iran, it was hard to believe ?that it?s taking place without the knowledge of the Iranian government.? The charge is denied by Tehran as ?100 percent lies.? ?We are seriously following the reports with concern,? said Afghan foreign ministry spokesman Sultan Ahmad Baheen. ?We want to continue our friendly relations with Iran.?

Karzai has said there is no proof the Iranian-marked weapons are provided by Tehran. Iran and Afghanistan have never been as friendly as they are today,? he said earlier this month. But a defence ministry general said the government had ?evidence?, including documents, to prove the weapons were coming into the country for the Taliban, with Tehran?s knowledge. The official, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter, would not give further details.

Shiite Iran, a staunch opponent of the Sunni Taliban movement?s 1996-2001 regime in Afghanistan, is playing a ?three-pronged? game, he said. ?Iran?s foreign ministry is staging a friendly-relations show with Afghanistan, supporting the Afghan government,? he told AFP. Meanwhile, ?Its religious armed forces and its intelligence is supporting political opponents of the government and, separately, helping Taliban

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C07%5C02%5Cstory_2-7-2007_pg4_13

[Michael Tee]

Wow, Christians United for Lesser Government But Bigger Military and Moral Police Force (just. kidding.) you have found a really interesting news source and I thank you for it.  The Pakistan Daily Times.  People really need to look into the local news sections of this paper for an idea of what a wild and crazy place Pakistan is today.  It's fascinating.  This one's from the Lahore section (I picked Lahore because it's supposed to be the gastronomic capital of Pakistan.)

<<Theatre actress killed in Sabzazar

<<Staff Report

<<LAHORE: Theatre actress Karishma Shah was shot dead by four assailants on Thursday in Sabzazar graveyard, where she had gone to visit her mother?s grave.

<<Police quoted Karishma Shah?s maternal uncle, Sagheer, as saying that the actress had been living with him since her mother died six months ago. He said that on Thursday, he and his son had accompanied her to the graveyard in Sabzazar?s H Block. Sagheer said that he and his son had left her at the grave to get water when four armed men, whom he identified as Wasim Butt alias Chemi, Talha Butt, Usman Butt and an unidentified accomplice shot at her. Police said Shah was hit by five bullets and died on the spot. Sagheer said the assailants fled the scene waving their weapons. When the police were told of the incident, they reached the scene, sent the body to the city mortuary and started investigation.

<<Sagheer said the actress had been receiving threatening phone calls for a long time and the culprits had been demanding money from her. He said she had told Sabzazar police of the threats, but the police said that they could not act because the criminals lived in Ghoray Shah which was not in their area of jurisdiction.

<<Karishma Shah had acted in two films and had frequently acted on commercial theatre.

<<Attacks on actors and actresses are not unprecedented. Last month, unidentified culprits had shot and injured stage dancer Saima Khan at the doorstep of her house in Allama Iqbal Town. After treatment, she left the city for Karachi. Similarly, in the early 90s, a film actress Marvi was shot at by a youth while shooting a film scene. She survived the attack, but was later killed in Karachi.

<<Stage dancer Nargis and film star Meera had also previously lodged cases against threatening phone calls. In other incidents, assailants had thrown acid on the faces of actresses Andalib and Nayna. Another actress Nadira had also been killed by unidentified assailants.>>

One of the other story links (probably to a photo) was "Monkey Riding on Goat," but I didn't get to it.  Saving it for next time.