Author Topic: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?  (Read 4017 times)

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Mr_Perceptive

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Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« on: September 04, 2007, 01:37:50 PM »
This is a pet peeve of mine. Being an avid hunter and fisherman and boater and so on, I love nature and attempt to preserve it at all costs. This has lead me to support various responsible environmental causes such as the Nature Conservancy. Here is another of my interests. Is it yours? Do you have an opinion on this issue? Who is to blame here?


Between May 2000 and August 2006, Brazil lost nearly 150,000 square kilometers of forest—an area larger than Greece—and since 1970, over 600,000 square kilometers (232,000 square miles) of Amazon rainforest have been destroyed. Why is Brazil losing so much forest? What can be done to slow deforestation?

 
DEFORESTATION IN BRAZIL: 60-70 percent of deforestation in the Amazon results from cattle ranches while the rest mostly results from small-scale subsistence agriculture. Despite the widespread press attention, large-scale farming (i.e. soybeans) currently contributes relatively little to total deforestation in the Amazon. Most soybean cultivation takes place outside the rainforest in the neighboring cerrado grassland ecosystem and in areas that have already been cleared. Logging results in forest degradation but rarely direct deforestation. However, studies have showed a close correlation between logging and future clearing for settlement and farming. [Portugu?s | Espa?ol]

Deforestation by state

 

 
 
 Deforestation Figures for Brazil

 

Year Deforestation
[sq mi] Deforestation
[sq km] Change
[%]
   
1988 8,127 21,050 
1989 6,861 17,770 -16%
1990 5,301 13,730 -23%
1991 4,259 11,030 -20%
1992 5,323 13,786 25%
1993 5,751 14,896 8%
1994 5,751 14,896 0%
1995 11,220 29,059 95%
1996 7,012 18,161 -38%
1997 5,107 13,227 -27%
1998 6,712 17,383 31%
1999 6,664 17,259 -1%
2000 7,037 18,226 6%
2001 7,014 18,165 0%
2002 8,187 21,205 17%
2003 9,711 25,151 19%
2004 10,590 27,429 9%
2005 7,256 18,793 -31%
2006 5,421 14,040 -49%
2007 3,865 10,010 -47%

All figures derived from official National
Institute of Space Research (INPE) data. Individual state figures.

*For the 1978-1988 period the figures represent
the average annual rates of deforestation.

 
 
 


Causes of deforestation in the Amazon
Cattle ranches   60-70%
Small-scale, subsistence agriculture   30-40%
Large-scale, commercial agriculture   1-2%
Logging, legal and illegal   2-4%
Fires, mining, urbanization, road construction, dams   2-4%
Selective logging and fires that burn under the forest canopy commonly result in forest degradation, not deforestation. Therefore these factor less in overall deforestation figures. 

Between 2000-2005 soybean cultivation reesulted in a small overall percentage of direct deforestation. Nevertheless the role of soy is quite significant in the Amazon. As explained by Dr. Philip Fearnside, "Soybean farms cause some forest clearing directly. But they have a much greater impact on deforestation by consuming cleared land, savanna, and transitional forests, thereby pushing ranchers and slash-and-burn farmers ever deeper into the forest frontier. Soybean farming also provides a key economic and political impetus for new highways and infrastructure projects, which accelerate deforestation by other actors."

 
 
Why is the Brazilian Amazon being Destroyed?
In many tropical countries, the majority of deforestation results from the actions of poor subsistence cultivators. However, in Brazil only about one-third of recent deforestation can be linked to "shifted" cultivators. Historically a large portion of deforestation in Brazil can be attributed to land clearing for pastureland by commercial and speculative interests, misguided government policies, inappropriate World Bank projects, and commercial exploitation of forest resources. For effective action it is imperative that these issues be addressed. Focusing solely on the promotion of sustainable use by local people would neglect the most important forces behind deforestation in Brazil.

Brazilian deforestation is strongly correlated to the economic health of the country: the decline in deforestation from 1988-1991 nicely matched the economic slowdown during the same period, while the rocketing rate of deforestation from 1993-1998 paralleled Brazil's period of rapid economic growth. During lean times, ranchers and developers do not have the cash to rapidly expand their pasturelands and operations, while the government lacks funds to sponsor highways and colonization programs and grant tax breaks and subsidies to forest exploiters.

A relatively small percentage of large landowners clear vast sections of the Amazon for cattle pastureland. Large tracts of forest are cleared and sometimes planted with African savanna grasses for cattle feeding. In many cases, especially during periods of high inflation, land is simply cleared for investment purposes. When pastureland prices exceed forest land prices (a condition made possible by tax incentives that favor pastureland over natural forest), forest clearing is a good hedge against inflation.

Such favorable taxation policies, combined with government subsidized agriculture and colonization programs, encourage the destruction of the Amazon. The practice of low taxes on income derived from agriculture and tax rates that favor pasture over forest overvalues agriculture and pastureland and makes it profitable to convert natural forest for these purposes when it normally would not be so.

In short, Deforestation is a local problem with global consequences. Recently, Brazil's Amazon rainforest has come into the international spotlight prompted by concerns for a warming planet. In 1991, it was predicted that at current deforestation rates, only scattered"remnants" of tropical rainforests will exist and a quarter of all species on Earth will be extinct by the time today's preschoolers retire (Binswanger, 1991). This rapid rate of deforestation raises concern in a number of different environmental issues such as biodiversitiy loss and global warming.

These environmental externalities have been directly linked to Brazilian governmental tax policies, tax incentive systems, rules of land allocation, and the agricultural credit system. Combined, these policies create economic distortions that harm the environment by increasing the demand for farm, pasture, and ranch land. Brazil's policies not only injure the environment, but also"reduce the chances of the poor to become farmers" (Binswanger, 1991). Large corporations quickly claim the land to which new roads give them access. Small, poor farmers are pushed farther into the jungle in order to find arable, unclaimed land. In order to slow deforestation, these policies must be changed, and a new set of laws and regulations regarding the use of forest land need to be implemented.

http://www.mongabay.com/brazil.html and http://www.colby.edu/personal/t/thtieten/defor-brazil.html.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 02:05:43 PM by Mr_Perceptive »

Amianthus

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2007, 01:52:42 PM »
This (deforestation of the Amazon) is also responsible for an increase in atmospheric CO2.

Of course, with global warming, the Sahara will become a rain forest again, as it once was. So, Mother Nature corrects problems.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Mr_Perceptive

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2007, 02:53:54 PM »
Can we or should be do something about this? What COULD WE potentially do anyway?

Amianthus

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2007, 02:55:22 PM »
Can we or should be do something about this? What COULD WE potentially do anyway?

Short of taking over Brazil, not much.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 05:12:36 PM »
   This is supposed to be the purpose of offsets.


http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/15-09/st_essay

http://www.nativeenergy.com/popups/offsets.html

http://www.terrapass.com/


   But do offsets actually work?

   Ideally it would work as well as "Ducks unlimited " and keep many thousands of hectares unexploited , but ducks unlimited has a long trackrecord  that inspires confidence , what lets us know that the money sent to Brazil is preserveing habitat at all?

Richpo64

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2007, 05:17:18 PM »
Shouldn't the rain forest be gone by now?

Plane

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2007, 05:27:33 PM »
Shouldn't the rain forest be gone by now?


I think it recovers somewhat in places where it is left alone for a while , though the really slow growing species become scarce.

I suppose one could insist on knowing where the beef he is being served was grown, and insisting on US or Argentine beef so that denudeing the forest is not supported on your bun.  I have never done this , would it work?




Richpo64

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2007, 05:35:08 PM »
Would it work?

You're going to have to convince me there's a problem before implementing a solution.

I don't buy any of this environmental catastrophe nonsense frankly. When did this save the rain forest campaign begin? In the 80's? I was under the impression it would be completely gone by now, and we'd all be living in another ice age.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 05:37:15 PM »
The Brazilian rain forest is HUGE. That is why much of it is still left.

There is still a lot of rain forest in Mexico, Central America, Panama and the rest of South America.

MacDonald's gets most of their beef from Brahma cattle raised in Brazil. But Mickey D is opposed to telling you this.

I doubt that a boycott would work.

It seems rather hypocritical for an American to demand that Brazilians stop using their rain forests when most of ours in Washington State, Oregon, and Idaho are gone, and we continue to despoil Alaska as fast as the Brazilians are clear-cutting Amazonia.

Just fly over the Pacific NW and see that only a strip along the highways remains of our one huge forests. The timber has been clearcut and used by  companies like Arvida to hire illegal Mexicans to build fancy gated communities in US suburbs, most of which will belong to one bank or another for the next two centuries.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2007, 05:59:45 PM »
A century ago Georgia was clear cut from sea to Chatahoochie and deer were extinct in the state.


It was a long hard road to recover and we lost several species but our second planting forest is being harvested as third and fourth generation forests are planted .


I think the trick is to cut it down at a rate lower than its recovery rate.

If we had always been carefull to not kill it all at once we might not have had to import Deer from Virginia to replace our own .

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2007, 06:24:32 PM »
"Our" as in 'belonging to Georgia, or would that be 'belonging to Georgia-Pacific'?

A tree farm is not the same thing as a forest. Even if it has deer. Even if there are wolves and bears.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2007, 06:40:34 PM »
"Our" as in 'belonging to Georgia, or would that be 'belonging to Georgia-Pacific'?

A tree farm is not the same thing as a forest. Even if it has deer. Even if there are wolves and bears.



It is better than nude land with severe erosion , we have been there.

After the Civil War the already rapid deforestation increaed in pace because there was a huge debt and famine ,don't blame the rich or the poor, everyone was participateing.

The third world wants to become well off in the same way that we did and they want to use the resorce that they have. If you want to go to Brizil to hunt , fish and photograph you might be helpig to produce an economic reason to keep some forest intact.

If you want paper and furnitue to be delivered to you cheap , beef and shrimp to be served to yo without careing where thay were farmed or how , then you are participateing in the forest cutting effort , however unwittingly.

I can't afford to travel so those peacock bass are safe from me , but I can recycle , I always have.

kimba1

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2007, 07:01:19 PM »
actually this is a common theme
local thinking vs global responsibility
the locals wants limber and farms to make money to support the people
us know it all foreigner are saying just starve and stay poor so the world survives
when i say common theme
I mean alot of parrallels happens
crazy foreigner are forbidding people from killing elephants who are rampaging and hurting people and stopping folks from building homes in open lands to protect these pesky elephants.
I have alot of african friends none of them like elephants.
if we want to interfer in other people livelyhood we gonna have to offer alternatives.
at least point out the dangers
ex. rain forrest land is actually very poor farmland in a few years it will be unuseable.
maybe find ways to cultivate the rainforrest so there will be a need for it`s existence

p.s. a tree farm is a farm
meaning it is in no way a self-sustaining system.
it depends on humans to maintain it
and will always require resources.


yellow_crane

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2007, 09:01:48 PM »
Would it work?

You're going to have to convince me there's a problem before implementing a solution.

I don't buy any of this environmental catastrophe nonsense frankly. When did this save the rain forest campaign begin? In the 80's? I was under the impression it would be completely gone by now, and we'd all be living in another ice age.



You appear to reject the science completely then ( . . . buy ANY of this . . .).

You are the perfect clone doll that can qualify for the end product kupie the rightwingers had hoped for when they sought out to combat any criticism of their clear-cut collection of the earth's resources, the ones who recognize only the profit agenda, and are heedless and indeed contemptuous of any serious consideration of relevant ecological concerns. 

Your complete renunciation of the science makes you the perfect dupe, the ledalong nincompoop, incapable any longer of forming an opinion without  cliff notes from Karl Rove.

The time has come to no longer wait for the report.  The report is suspect, as long as the corporations are writing the report.

Time to get active about the environment, and nothing will work unless the corporations are directly confronted.

crocat

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Re: Is killing the Amazon a Global issue?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2007, 09:56:20 PM »
......I have alot of african friends none of them like elephants.
if we want to interfer in other people livelyhood we gonna have to offer alternatives.
at least point out the dangers
ex. rain forrest land is actually very poor farmland in a few years it will be unuseable.
maybe find ways to cultivate the rainforrest so there will be a need for it`s existence

p.s. a tree farm is a farm
meaning it is in no way a self-sustaining system.
it depends on humans to maintain it
and will always require resources.



on elephants...."...in the Indian state of Jharkhand near the western border of Bangladesh, 300 people were killed by elephants between 2000 and 2004. In the past 12 years, elephants have killed 605 people in Assam, a state in northeastern India, 239 of them since 2001; 265 elephants have died in that same period, the majority of them as a result of retaliation by angry villagers, who have used everything from poison-tipped arrows to laced food to exact their revenge." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/magazine/08elephant.html?ex=1189051200&en=b2b1fae919f0f2cb&ei=5070

2 assumptions here...1. more people die from Aids than from elephants- neither would be an issue if people didn't a. build villages in areas that have been elephant migration routes. b. let social stigma dictate social behavior... oh...and we didn't destroy the rain forest... because... of yes... there is more reason to save it other than those nasty elephants.  For instance many plants that are known for their anti oxidants and their ability to build a strong immune system.
and 2.  more people die from car accidents than elephants and we don't make people give up their cars.