True intentions of Christ's teachings (Sirs)

[The_Professor]

No, you seek Him because you Love Him. You do, of course, want him to say when you meet Him in person "Good and faithful servant". And, of course, along the way, you enter the bounds of James' "Faith without works is dead", which, I beleive, is really the root of this thread.

I agree Professor. The purpose of man is to love God (the Holy Trinity). We should not ask, or presume reward from Him. We certainly have not earned it. We also need to be very careful in condemning others as I've seen both you and Sirs do. Let us not forget the Prodigal Son.

If by condemnation, you mean condemning non-Chriatians to Hell, well, that is what God has to say about that issue. Surely, as a devout Christian, you believe non-Christians go to Heaven when Scripture plainly indicates the opposite?

As a simple man, I don't know whether they will go to heaven, purgatory, or hell. I don't even know what those really are. I'm certainly not about to stand in God's place and make those decisions for Him.

Cop out, JS. By not taking a stand, you place yourself in a postion where you actually DSO take a stand. The Word of God is clear on this subject and to try to indicate otherwise is totally cop out. What does Revelations say about being lukewarm?

[The_Professor]

We also need to be very careful in condemning others as I've seen both you and Sirs do. Let us not forget the Prodigal Son.

And low and behold, Js throwing out yet another distorted accusation         We, as Christians, have an absolute ability, and I'd say obligation, to condemn actions we feel inappropriate or unfit or sinful or evil.  What we are not allowed to do is Judge and conclude who'll be allowed into heaven or not.  That is the sole dominion of God.

Not distorted Sirs.

You condemned Brass and Professor condemned Terra as to their final destinations. I read both statements.

Yep, a Card laid is a card played.

[sirs]

Well of course its weak....its not what you want to hear.  and your opinion of invasion is another one's opinion of preemptively dealing with a threat to this country, most all believed to have been valid --> WMD getting in the hands of terrorists, who had just taken down the WTC and killed 3000+ in a 2hour span

Sorry if it's not what you want to hear, but my conscience is perfectly clear regarding Christ's teachings of giving of oneself vs taking from another, in "helping our fellow man"

I can provide many quotes from the Bible about helping your fellow man, taking care of the poor.

And.......?  Has that EVER been in dispute??  The issue is the HOW we go about doing that, and not 1 quote from the bible even implies the taking from one to give to another.  NOTHING that you have provided in the way of scriptures portrays such a practice.  It's simply the advocation of helping.  and again, there in lies the polar problem you have

Sirs, I know your conscience is clear. That's what is so damn scary about people like you.

Yea, supporting the assistance of helping of the poor, the weak, & the elderly, without resorting to the forcible taking from others to do so, is soooooo scary.  I'll make sure to wear a name badge so you can walk on the other side of the street, if you're that distraught      

[The_Professor]

Except for JS, this whole discussion is singularly underwhelming. The beauty of Jesus's religion and philosophy, it seems to me, is that it gives man room to fumble forward toward "perfection" as time and place may require by following and working out the ambiguities of one of mankind's greatest spiritual, moral, social, intellectual and PRACTICAL guides to life on this earth. There are many entrance points, many frames of reference, many paths, many models of analysis. It is almost as if Christ had openly said: "Working out what I have taught is the great adventure and duty of life." Approached this way, the correct way, I suggest, no absolute dictum can be made about, of all things, taxation and the orientation of society along socialist (loving) lines.

You are incorrect. There are NOT multiple entance points. John 14:6 says, and Jesus is speaking, "I am the Truth and the Life, no ones come to the Father but by Me."

Pretty clear statement, I would think. Applying mushy "I m okay, you're okay" humanist philosphy doesn't change that statement or its implications.

[The_Professor]

Boy oh boy, does Js want to keep this focused on the war vs taxes in general.  Well, last time I checked, I do recall battles that Israel had to deal with, including moving into different lands.  Not sure how they financed their God-supported wars then.  So, if you can come up with that answer, that should take care of your current query.

Oh yea, Christians, especially any who dare support the defending of our country, aren't perfect, contrary to popular leftist opinion 

What a weak response.

We didn't defend this country, we invaded another country. We pay for it with taxation. The same taxation you are whining about to me. Now, you've supported this war as well as waterboarding (siumulated drowning) and other "coercive interrogation techniques" (i.e. sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, and electroshock). You support a wall on the Mexican border to keep out the unwanted poor from that nation.

Now, those are all paid for through taxation (yes, in some cases borrowed taxation on future generations).

So, you've attacked and attacked anyone supporting Government programs to help those in need. Clearly, in your mind, they are "contorting the Bible to fit their own socialist ideology."

I want you to show me how Christ supports your use of taxation. You've already defined it, so why should Christians support invading Iraq, simulated drowning and other coercive interrogation techniques, and a wall to keep out Mexicans? I don't want some weak blithering answer, I want a Biblical answer for Christians to cling to. In fact, I want an answer out of Christ's teachings.

You demanded no less of me (which I provided) now let's see your pudding on the table.

What a weak response.
...and the condescending begins...

[Brassmask]

The bigger risk you face is eternal damnation for not believing in the 1st place.  But that's your burden to bear.  To answer your question, considering I've apparently spent a hell of a lot longer studying the bible and Christ's teachings than yourself, there's no risk what-so-ever.  Jesus wanted man, NOT GOVERNMENT to ease other men's sufferings.  The scriptures clearly articulate such

By your statement/logic, it appears that you would like to believe that Jesus did not want man to use tools to ease other men's suffering.  

NOOOO, tools are fine, as long as they don't take something away from another.  You can use all the tools one wants, so long as it's not taking "tools" away from someone else.  At least that's not what Christ taught.  But nice try

You're whining about having something taken away from you to use to ease suffering among the poor and sick.  Is that really a christian attitude?  Even if it were stealing, which it isn't, whatever happened to turning the other cheek?

It is being done in Jesus' name for the good of all.

[Brassmask]

But make no mistake Brass, a "good Christian" can fully support taking money from others and applying it to simulated drowning and electroshocking of prisoners, invading foreign countries, and building walls to keep out the neighboring poor. I bet that example makes you want to attend church this Sunday, doesn't it?

Their god is a vengeful god, you know.

[Brassmask]

The issue is the HOW we go about doing that, and not 1 quote from the bible even implies the taking from one to give to another.

I wish that the whole theism thing was a reality so I could try to be there when Jesus asks sirs about why he didn't support helping his fellow man in all ways and hear him stammer and hem and haw as he explains to Jesus that he was against taxation.

[sirs]

You're whining about having something taken away from you to use to ease suffering among the poor and sick. 

Not quite.  I'm "whining" about someone taking something away that doesn't belong to them (NOT Christian BTW), to push their own ideological agenda, of how things are supposed to be, and screw anyone else that doesn't agree.  As Prince has so expertly articulated in the past, those that don't support this socialist nonsense of it takes a village, and EVERYONE is obligated to pay into that village, does NOT equate to not wanting to help ease the suffering among the poor and sick.  Not only is it not a mandate of the Federal Government to do so, they also realize that Government is one of the worst, most inefficient, and wasteful options in doing so.  Katrina, anyone?

The Christian "attitude" is to help others, while NOT taking from someone else to do so.  Simple as that

[Brassmask]

You're whining about having something taken away from you to use to ease suffering among the poor and sick. 

Not quite.  I'm "whining" about someone taking something away that doesn't belong to them (NOT Christian BTW), to push their own ideological agenda, of how things are supposed to be, and screw anyone else that doesn't agree.  As Prince has so expertly articulated in the past, those that don't support this socialist nonsense of it takes a village, and EVERYONE is obligated to pay into that village, does NOT equate to not wanting to help ease the suffering among the poor and sick.  Not only is it not a mandate of the Federal Government to do so, they also realize that Government is one of the worst, most inefficient, and wasteful options in doing so.  Katrina, anyone?

The Christian "attitude" is to help others, while NOT taking from someone else to do so.  Simple as that

Even when its for the good of others.  Not very christian.

[sirs]

As Prince has so expertly articulated in the past, those that don't support this socialist nonsense of it takes a village, and EVERYONE is obligated to pay into that village, does NOT equate to not wanting to help ease the suffering among the poor and sick.  Not only is it not a mandate of the Federal Government to do so, they also realize that Government is one of the worst, most inefficient, and wasteful options in doing so.  Katrina, anyone?

The Christian "attitude" is to help others, while NOT taking from someone else to do so.  Simple as that

Even when its for the good of others.  Not very christian.

The "good of others" doesn't include TAKING from others.  THAT would be "not very Christian"  Never has, never will be.

[Brassmask]

As Prince has so expertly articulated in the past, those that don't support this socialist nonsense of it takes a village, and EVERYONE is obligated to pay into that village, does NOT equate to not wanting to help ease the suffering among the poor and sick.  Not only is it not a mandate of the Federal Government to do so, they also realize that Government is one of the worst, most inefficient, and wasteful options in doing so.  Katrina, anyone?

The Christian "attitude" is to help others, while NOT taking from someone else to do so.  Simple as that

Even when its for the good of others.  Not very christian.

The "good of others" doesn't include TAKING from others.  THAT would be "not very Christian"  Never has, never will be.

So, how to reconcile taking our tax money to use to kill others? Taking from us to use for very unchristian endeavours.

[Amianthus]

So, how to reconcile taking our tax money to use to kill others? Taking from us to use for very unchristian endeavours.

So, you're now claiming our government is supposed to be Christian?

[BT]

The "good of others" doesn't include TAKING from others.  THAT would be "not very Christian"  Never has, never will be.

I just have to chuckle at all these folks who are saying taxation is the best way to end poverty and travail, yet are all in favor of making sure the other guy does the heavy lifting, by taxing people at different rates.

We have one guy arguing that his church doesn't believe in property ownership and adherents shouldn't believe in property ownership, yet when called on it is written off as being pragmatic or not referring to the temporal world. Wonder if the IRS takes celestial dollars.

Seems strange to see these same people castigating people for failing to live up to the ideal, when they aren't doing the same.

[hnumpah]

Their god is a vengeful god, you know.

Reminds me of a favorite bumper sticker -

It's your hell, you burn in it.