Author Topic: Plus it doesn't work  (Read 655 times)

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Lanya

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Plus it doesn't work
« on: March 03, 2008, 01:04:27 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/opinion/02sun1.html?_r=1&ex=1362286800&en=a7ea6b3f4962e657&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

Editorial
Horrifying and Unnecessary

   
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Published: March 2, 2008

In the next few days President Bush is expected to again claim the right to order mistreatment of prisoners that any civilized person would regard as torture.


Mr. Bush is planning to veto a law that would require the C.I.A. and all the intelligence services to abide by the restrictions on holding and interrogating prisoners contained in the United States Army Field Manual. Mr. Bush says the Army rules are too restrictive.

What are these burdens? In addition to a blanket prohibition of torture, the manual specifically bans:

Forcing a prisoner to be naked, perform sexual acts or pose in a sexual manner.

 Placing hoods or sacks over the head of a prisoner, and using duct tape over the eyes.

Applying beatings, electric shocks, burns or other forms of physical pain.

 Waterboarding.

 Using military working dogs.

 Inducing hypothermia or heat injury.

 Conducting mock executions.

 Depriving a prisoner of necessary food, water or medical care.

Such practices have long been prohibited by American laws and international treaties respected by Republican and Democratic presidents. Mr. Bush, however, declared that he was unbound by the laws of civilization in responding to the barbarism of Sept. 11, 2001. And reports soon surfaced about the abuse of prisoners at detention centers in Afghanistan, the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and secret Central Intelligence Agency prisons.

Finally, in 2006, a compliant, Republican-controlled Congress outlawed the kinds of abuse and torture that Mr. Bush?s lawyers had turned into government policy. Unfortunately, Congress applied the prohibitions only to the military, and Mr. Bush immediately made clear that he would issue whatever orders he wanted to the intelligence agencies. In response, Congress approved an amendment to the intelligence budget bill this year that binds those agencies to the same rules as the military.

Opponents of Mr. Bush?s policies on prisoners have long argued that it is immoral, dangerous and counterproductive to abuse and torture prisoners. We do not hold out much hope that the president will heed our last, urgent plea not to veto this bill.

We urge him to read the Army Field Manual, which says: ?Use of torture by U.S. personnel would bring discredit upon the U.S. and its armed forces while undermining domestic and international support for the war effort. It could also place U.S. and allied personnel in enemy hands at greater risk of abuse.?

He could listen to 43 retired generals or a bipartisan coalition of 18 former members of Congress, secretaries of state and national security officials who all supported the anti-torture amendment.

He could check the testimony of Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, who told Congress last week that waterboarding violated the Geneva Conventions.

Or he could read the letter that Gen. David Petraeus, the commander in Iraq, wrote to his troops.

?Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy,? General Petraeus wrote. ?They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary.?
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Plus it doesn't work
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2008, 01:46:40 PM »
Yeah, but what if evil Al Qaeda terrorists have planted a ticking bomb in the White House and tied up all the staff and the whole first family and they catch this one guy who knows the secret Bomb password and the bomb is ticking down and there are only minutes left?

This assumes that there would be a secret bomb password, that Al Qaeda could tie up all those people, and they caught the one guy with the password, but it COULD happen, right?  Right?

We saw this on 24 hours, didn't we?

Of course, the password could be in Arabic, and they write that backwards, don;t they? And who the hell knows Arabic. Tick tick tick.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."