Author Topic: A lesson that needs to be re-learned  (Read 2312 times)

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sirs

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A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« on: May 21, 2008, 05:44:27 PM »
Democrats and Our Enemies
By JOSEPH LIEBERMAN
May 21, 2008


How did the Democratic Party get here? How did the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy drift so far from the foreign policy and national security principles and policies that were at the core of its identity and its purpose?

Beginning in the 1940s, the Democratic Party was forced to confront two of the most dangerous enemies our nation has ever faced: Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. In response, Democrats under Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy forged and conducted a foreign policy that was principled, internationalist, strong and successful.

This was the Democratic Party that I grew up in ? a party that was unhesitatingly and proudly pro-American, a party that was unafraid to make moral judgments about the world beyond our borders. It was a party that understood that either the American people stood united with free nations and freedom fighters against the forces of totalitarianism, or that we would fall divided.

This was the Democratic Party of Harry Truman, who pledged that "it must be the policy of the United States to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures."

And this was the Democratic Party of John F. Kennedy, who promised in his inaugural address that the United States would "pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of freedom."

This worldview began to come apart in the late 1960s, around the war in Vietnam. In its place, a very different view of the world took root in the Democratic Party. Rather than seeing the Cold War as an ideological contest between the free nations of the West and the repressive regimes of the communist world, this rival political philosophy saw America as the aggressor ? a morally bankrupt, imperialist power whose militarism and "inordinate fear of communism" represented the real threat to world peace.

It argued that the Soviets and their allies were our enemies not because they were inspired by a totalitarian ideology fundamentally hostile to our way of life, or because they nursed ambitions of global conquest. Rather, the Soviets were our enemy because we had provoked them, because we threatened them, and because we failed to sit down and accord them the respect they deserved. In other words, the Cold War was mostly America's fault.

Of course that leftward lurch by the Democrats did not go unchallenged. Democratic Cold Warriors like Scoop Jackson fought against the tide. But despite their principled efforts, the Democratic Party through the 1970s and 1980s became prisoner to a foreign policy philosophy that was, in most respects, the antithesis of what Democrats had stood for under Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy.

Then, beginning in the 1980s, a new effort began on the part of some of us in the Democratic Party to reverse these developments, and reclaim our party's lost tradition of principle and strength in the world. Our band of so-called New Democrats was successful sooner than we imagined possible when, in 1992, Bill Clinton and Al Gore were elected. In the Balkans, for example, as President Clinton and his advisers slowly but surely came to recognize that American intervention, and only American intervention, could stop Slobodan Milosevic and his campaign of ethnic slaughter, Democratic attitudes about the use of military force in pursuit of our values and our security began to change.

This happy development continued into the 2000 campaign, when the Democratic candidate ? Vice President Gore ? championed a freedom-focused foreign policy, confident of America's moral responsibilities in the world, and unafraid to use our military power. He pledged to increase the defense budget by $50 billion more than his Republican opponent ? and, to the dismay of the Democratic left, made sure that the party's platform endorsed a national missile defense.

By contrast, in 2000, Gov. George W. Bush promised a "humble foreign policy" and criticized our peacekeeping operations in the Balkans.

Today, less than a decade later, the parties have completely switched positions. The reversal began, like so much else in our time, on September 11, 2001. The attack on America by Islamist terrorists shook President Bush from the foreign policy course he was on. He saw September 11 for what it was: a direct ideological and military attack on us and our way of life. If the Democratic Party had stayed where it was in 2000, America could have confronted the terrorists with unity and strength in the years after 9/11.

Instead a debate soon began within the Democratic Party about how to respond to Mr. Bush. I felt strongly that Democrats should embrace the basic framework the president had advanced for the war on terror as our own, because it was our own. But that was not the choice most Democratic leaders made. When total victory did not come quickly in Iraq, the old voices of partisanship and peace at any price saw an opportunity to reassert themselves. By considering centrism to be collaboration with the enemy ? not bin Laden, but Mr. Bush ? activists have successfully pulled the Democratic Party further to the left than it has been at any point in the last 20 years.

Far too many Democratic leaders have kowtowed to these opinions rather than challenging them. That unfortunately includes Barack Obama, who, contrary to his rhetorical invocations of bipartisan change, has not been willing to stand up to his party's left wing on a single significant national security or international economic issue in this campaign.

In this, Sen. Obama stands in stark contrast to John McCain, who has shown the political courage throughout his career to do what he thinks is right ? regardless of its popularity in his party or outside it.

John also understands something else that too many Democrats seem to have become confused about lately ? the difference between America's friends and America's enemies.

There are of course times when it makes sense to engage in tough diplomacy with hostile governments. Yet what Mr. Obama has proposed is not selective engagement, but a blanket policy of meeting personally as president, without preconditions, in his first year in office, with the leaders of the most vicious, anti-American regimes on the planet.

Mr. Obama has said that in proposing this, he is following in the footsteps of Reagan and JFK. But Kennedy never met with Castro, and Reagan never met with Khomeini. And can anyone imagine Presidents Kennedy or Reagan sitting down unconditionally with Ahmadinejad or Chavez? I certainly cannot.

If a president ever embraced our worst enemies in this way, he would strengthen them and undermine our most steadfast allies.
A great Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson, once warned "no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies." This is a lesson that today's Democratic Party leaders need to relearn.


Historical Perspective & Egregious Arrogance
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 06:44:52 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2008, 06:09:17 PM »
very true sirs
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2008, 08:32:05 PM »
An amazingly daft article.

Reagan of course dealt with terrorists to free hostages in Lebanon (for which more were consequently taken).

This is typical war hawk bullshit. What it does not tell you is how organizations like the AFL destroyed the labor movement in America by actively removing the leftists in their red scare witch hunts as well as dismantling tough unions like the Wobblies and the American Electrical Workers, who would not go along with the imperialist notions of the "Cold Warriors." The AFL's only Latin American branch organization held only one set of industrial actions and that was to oppose the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Not once did they oppose Somoza or Pinochet, or any of our other right-wing anti-labor thugs. In fact, they helped organize the coup in Brazil and Guatemala that destroyed that nation (the AFL worked closely with a known "friend" of labor at the time - the CIA).

So Mr. Lieberman can take his advice and shove it straight where the sun doesn't shine. It was worth what we paid for it. 
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2008, 09:09:58 PM »
Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson: "no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies."

Democratic President John F. Kennedy; "the United States will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of freedom."

Liberal cyber Pundit, Js ; "Mr. Lieberman can take his advice and shove it straight where the sun doesn't shine. It was worth what we paid for it."

Well, there's one Democrat that has no intention of learning from past mistakes.  Thanks for the head's up, Js
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2008, 10:16:30 PM »
"the United States will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of freedom."


=====================================
If it means the freedom of Americans, that's fine.
If this means what some American government defines as freedom for people other than Americans, it is really, really a bad idea, no matter who said it.

Observe that Kennedy did not try to pay any price or bear any burden to liberate the Chinese, the Soviets, or even the Cubans, ans he was wise to not even try.

Lieberman is just the senator from Israel. Forget him.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2008, 10:43:15 PM »
That makes 2 democrats who have no intention of learning from their mistakes.  Next?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

fatman

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 11:06:43 PM »
"the United States will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of freedom."

So when are the freedom loving Iraqi's going to release the homosexuals that they're holding in their jails?  The proposed amnesty will release terrorists (or those accued thereof) but not homosexuals.  Is that the freedom that we're bearing the burden, meeting the hardship, supporting the Iraqi's, and opposing Al-Qaeda for?

And I'm not a Democrat.

sirs

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2008, 11:49:15 PM »
Name me 1 country and its Government that's the shining beacon of all that's pure, Fatman
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 12:14:04 AM »
"the United States will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of freedom."

So when are the freedom loving Iraqi's going to release the homosexuals that they're holding in their jails?  The proposed amnesty will release terrorists (or those accued thereof) but not homosexuals.  Is that the freedom that we're bearing the burden, meeting the hardship, supporting the Iraqi's, and opposing Al-Qaeda for?

And I'm not a Democrat.

Will these Homosexuals be released by the Iranians after their guys take over?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 07:30:12 AM »
Name me 1 country and its Government that's the shining beacon of all that's pure, Fatman
===========================
Norway? Denmark? Finland?
Perhaps not pure, but far purer than the US at the moment.

This is a spurious argument. All countries are imperfect, so the US has a right to be imperfect, too. There is no reason to seek perfection, because it does not exist.

Perfection DOES exist. I can add 2+3 and perfectly obtain the answer of 5, for example.

There is no excuse not to strive for perfection. Even though some matters are probably too complex to attain true perfection, it is a goal all should strive for.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 10:34:41 AM »




"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 11:15:31 AM »
Stupid toon.

Racist drawings.

Proves nothing, except about the clown who posted it.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 11:42:58 AM »
Democratic secretary of state, Dean Acheson: "no people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies."

Democratic President John F. Kennedy; "the United States will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of freedom."

Liberal cyber Pundit, Js ; "Mr. Lieberman can take his advice and shove it straight where the sun doesn't shine. It was worth what we paid for it."

Well, there's one Democrat that has no intention of learning from past mistakes.  Thanks for the head's up, Js

Freedom? Again defending the indefensible.

The price of freedom in the Cold War, was of course freedom and a lot of dead bodies. So unless your equation for freedom is this Freedom = lack of Freedom + Death then you're dealing with your typical rhetorical garbage and lack of any historical knowledge that you do so well.

But let's assume you support all of this Sirs. That you means that you support illegally opening and collecting American citizens' mail (who did nothing), following and collecting information on hundreds of thousands of Americans (who again - did nothing), using Communism as a cover for naked Racism which occurred all over the South from government officials to religious leaders, union busting - which I'm sure you support (why should workers have freedom?), telephone monitoring of thousands (again, who did nothing).

You don't believe me that this took place - read the Church Committee's Report. You should be able to find it online.

And I'm no Democrat and no liberal. But you certainly are a run-of-the-mill Republican.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 11:56:49 AM »
LOL....considering how I'm a registered Independent, and have consistently refused to support the GOP financially when they've sent letters of donation requests, not to mention the consistent criticism I've applied to their out of control spending when they were in the majority, I'd say your batting average in trying to label me, what I supposedly support, and my supposed hypocrisy, has been as consistent as Andruw Jones batting average this season for the Dodgers.

But don't let that stop you.  You, Xo, and Lanya have been in an apparent race to see how wrong your opinions can get
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: A lesson that needs to be re-learned
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 12:06:23 PM »
LOL....considering how I'm a registered Independent, and have consistently refused to support the GOP financially when they've sent letters of donation requests, not to mention the consistent criticism I've applied to their out of control spending when they were in the majority, I'd say your batting average in trying to label me, what I supposedly support, and my supposed hypocrisy, has been as consistent as Andruw Jones batting average this season for the Dodgers.

But don't let that stop you.  You, Xo, and Lanya have been in an apparent race to see how wrong your opinions can get

Yeah, OK.

You got your little one-liner in, we're all impressed Sirs.

Back to the point. You do support all of those things that "Cold Warriors" did to "protect freedom."

So violating other nation's rights? Destroying our own freedoms and attacking other American citizens, those were not only acceptable - but noble in your mind.

Do you know how many people we killed in Latin America, Africa, Indonesia, Asia?

To protect freedom? With a body count. By destroying American citizens lives. Yes - you bet that is hypocrisy and I'll say so every time.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.