Mindblowing Stats from the "Land of the Free"

[Brassmask]

You mean, when you break the law, you go to jail.  Yea, works for me

Yeah, but why do we have SO MANY that (allegedly) choose to break the law? 

Desperation.  That's why.

[Michael Tee]

it's very obvious that no one on the right is prepared to deal with the stats in a serious way.  sirs will go on pretending that everyone who is locked up is a violent offender, a menace (funnily enough, much the same  way he still insists that Iraq was a menace to the U.S.) and BT advances the argument by pointing out the number of violent drug users roaming the streets of Washington, DC - - as if, since there is no known way to distinguish between violent and non-violent drug users, so all of them must languish in jail indefinitely for the greater good of mankind.

BT also takes another tack - - do the crime, do the time - - without acknowledging that (1) ANY conduct, whether smoking a joint, chewing gum in public or reading a Bible, can be criminalized, depending on the society making the laws, and (2) the more non-violent and/or victimless activity that is criminalized would seem to be a pretty good indicator of the repressiveness of the society that makes the rules.

I was hoping for a more serious discussion of the subject, but so far all that's surfaced on the right is a lot of denial, straw-man arguments (also evidence of denial) and a simple reluctance to draw the necessary conclusions from inescapable fact.  Why was I not more surprised?

[BT]

BT also takes another tack - - do the crime, do the time - - without acknowledging that (1) ANY conduct, whether smoking a joint, chewing gum in public or reading a Bible, can be criminalized, depending on the society making the laws, and (2) the more non-violent and/or victimless activity that is criminalized would seem to be a pretty good indicator of the repressiveness of the society that makes the rules.

You skip the part about how laws are made. Elected representatives make the laws. They decide whether possession of a joint is worth 20 years in Texas or a Rose Bowl parade in California.

You apparently posted the article as an opportunity to snark. Show me that the majority of inmates are political prisoners instead of perpetrators of crimes against persons or property and you might have a case.

I doubt you can.

[Plane]

China might have many more prisoners if it were not executeing so many (and selling the spare parts).

I would not mind it if Marijuanna were decriminalised and all convictions directly related to distribution or possession of Cannibas were made void. That would open up a few prison beds for better purpose.

That is just me though , how many people agree with that?


During the time  Zell Miller was Govenor , the prison space was doubbled , the beds seldom went empty long either. Zell improved his popularity this way , Guliani got tough and made himself Presidential Canadate materiel.

Don't we like tough state government better than lax enforcement over all?

I mean most of us, excludeing me.

[Amianthus]

The United States has more people in jail - 2.3 million - than any other nation.

I guess we're just more effective at catching and convicting law breakers than most other countries.

[BT]

Yeah, but why do we have SO MANY that (allegedly) choose  to break the law?

Desperation.  That's why.

That's a romaticized outlook. Most crimes are crimes of opportunity and the belief that they won't get caught.

DUI is but one example.

[Plane]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080610/NEWS05/806100317/1007

Detroit saw an 8% drop in violent crime. That news comes seven months after a Washington-based publication analyzed earlier FBI statistics and made the controversial conclusion Detroit was the nation's most dangerous city.

Locking up one or two carreer criminals prevents dozens of crimes every year , if they are makeing their liveing at crime it is cheaper to put them up in the jail.

But can we afford to do without the productive person who breaks the law seldom or almost harmlessly? Laws that tie down the crime career of a harmfull person are worth keeping and the person in question is better out of the hair of the rest of us. How many laws do we have that cause harmless and productive people to wind up in jail?

[kimba1]

tricky
since it`s a given that all people arrested are presumed guilty.
legally alleged is the word used,but general public opinoin tend to believe guilt.
family law is proof of this
despite what some folks will say ,guilt on the ex-husband is super easy.

[Michael Tee]

<<You skip the part about how laws are made. Elected representatives make the laws. They decide whether possession of a joint is worth 20 years in Texas or a Rose Bowl parade in California.>>

Gee, I missed that laws were made by elected representatives.  I always thought that they came from a cabal of Jewish international bankers meeting secretly under the foundations of Solomon's Temple and were then carried to America by special couriers and proclaimed by loudspeakers from unmarked black helicopters hovering over the rooftops.  Well, that's alright then.  If the laws are made by elected representatives, then they can't possibly be repressive, can they? 

<<You apparently posted the article as an opportunity to snark. >>

No, no honestly, it started out as a post in praise of America and all the great personal freedoms that the lucky American people enjoy, and then my evil keyboard just took over regardless of what my fingertips were doing, but believe me I meant to show nothing but awe and reverence for the great American Republic and its wonderful freedoms available equally to one and all.  Forgive me BT, but it wasn't me, it was my Islamofascist  keyboard, never would I dare to snark at the U.S. of A., benefactor of all mankind.

<<Show me that the majority of inmates are political prisoners instead of perpetrators of crimes against persons or property and you might have a case.>>

I don't have to show you any such thing.  I never claimed that the majority of prisoners were political, although I am sure that there are many who are.  I never claimed that it would take a 50% reduction in prison population to bring it into line with the civilized world either, so I don't need to demonstrate anything about the majority of the prison population to have a case.  I HAVE a case.  It is in the numbers I cited.  Most other countries maintain safer streets with less incarceration.  You are swinging at strawmen.

[BT]

I'd leave the sarcasm to Prince.

He's better at it.

[Michael Tee]

Who gives a shit?  I had fun writing it.  And you're not going to manoeuvre me into a pissing match with Prince over who writes better sarcasm. 

[Brassmask]

Everyone knows that punishment is rarely an effective means to desired actions.

It is also well-known that "do as I say, not as I do" is an invitation to more crime.  When average folk see their "leaders" literally getting away with murder, lies and crimes galore, they feel that the world is their oyster.  If no one else is following the rules then why should I?

[Plane]

Everyone knows that punishment is rarely an effective means to desired actions.

It is also well-known that "do as I say, not as I do" is an invitation to more crime.  When average folk see their "leaders" literally getting away with murder, lies and crimes galore, they feel that the world is their oyster.  If no one else is following the rules then why should I?

That is exactly why I couldn't stand Clinton.

[BT]

It is also well-known that "do as I say, not as I do" is an invitation to more crime.  When average folk see their "leaders" literally getting away with murder, lies and crimes galore, they feel that the world is their oyster.  If no one else is following the rules then why should I?

What a strange statement. I would bet that far less than half of those who rob 7-11's have a clue who their state rep is, or their congressman.

One would also expect crime would be skyrocketing in blue states since they would be more upset with allegations of criminal activity by the current administration.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is suspect you were just employing a rhetorical device .

[Xavier_Onassis]

Much of the difference between the US and other countries is due to our locking up people as criminals for drug offenses. This does little to actually deter drug traffic, and locking them up, rather than providing detox programs as they do elsewhere costs more than locking them up.

Decriminalizing marijuana would a logical first step to reducing the prison population.

Prison does not serve as a satisfactory deterrent. Other counties have less crime and many fewer people in prison.