Author Topic: Elitism  (Read 2217 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2008, 09:14:59 PM »
The word elite is used in two ways.

It is used to mean "snob", and it is used to mean "more capable person".

By definition, all societies are ruled by their elites, because the people in charge always have more power than those who do not.

For years, England was ruled by a noble class that simply ruled by virtue of being members of the nobility.

Many of these individuals (George III, notably) were not really up to the chore of running anything. George III was barking mad for a period. Some attribute this to his eating odd pewter plates with a high lead content. Heavy pewter was supposed to be superior.

Eventually, some of the nobility actually took advantage of their superior educations and became industrialists. More often, the smarter of their middle class classmates were hired to run his lordship's businesses.

On the US, especially in New England where there was no plantation aristocracy, the ideal was that the society be ruled by a meritocracy: a rule of the most capable.

Plato was probably the first major writer to come up with rule by a more capable elite in his work The Republic. The Republic was a utopian state on some remote island somewhere undisturbed by the rest of the world. It was ruled by Philosopher Kings, an elite who were identified as children as being the best and the brightest and given the best education the Republic had to offer.

The Republicans use the word "elite" to mean "snobs": people who have a better than average grasp on education, sociology and politics than the businessmen who tend to be self-taught and somewhat deficient in their education. They might not know as much as the OSHA inspector, but they refuse to admit this because they have more money than he or she does. They will  bow down to the demands of an insurance company inspector, because the insurance company has more money than they do.

In an ideal society, people with the best qualifications should be identifiable and identified by the voters, who would freely elect them based on their knowledge of how the government works, ignoring irrelevant details, which might include their ability to kill a moose or survive in a Vietnamese prison camp, since these are activities that never are likely to be useful when leading a country. Certainly Joe Biden knows acres more about foreign policy that McCain or Palin put together. Other differences could be based on ideology, I suppose, since there is a basic difference between the world view of traditional Christians, who believe that Man is born corrupt from the stench of the diaper to the reek of the shroud and must be controlled, and the Liberal view that people can be rational beings who can be persuaded to not be corrupt. In any event, the best qualified people ideally should be the leaders. It is rather imperative that the leader of any society have some idea of the direction in which he wishes to lead. This was clearly lacking in Juniorbush's prosecution of the Iraq War, since he, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a gaggle of Neocons had no clue of what to do once they had toppled Saddam. Colin Powel could have told them, but they had decided to ignore him despite his deep understanding, and he was disposed to obey them because he was first a good soldier.







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Michael Tee

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2008, 10:12:50 PM »
<<Being rich doesn't make you elistist. Looking down your nose at people who cling to guns and religion does... for example.>>

I'm starting to see that part of the problem here might be that everyone has his or her own definition of elitism.

sirs

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2008, 10:14:06 PM »
So, Xo's attempt to answer the question is that there are actually 2 definitions of being an elitist.  If I understand it correctly, when a Democrat uses the term referencing a Democrat, that's a good thing.  When a Democrat uses the term referencing a Republican, then it's a bad thing

In other words, it depends on what the definition of is, is
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

richpo64

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2008, 10:14:46 PM »
>>I'm starting to see that part of the problem here might be that everyone has his or her own definition of elitism.<<

So being rich is one of your requirement for being an elitist? Barry is rich you know.

Plane

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2008, 10:28:17 PM »
The word elite is used in two ways.

It is used to mean "snob", and it is used to mean "more capable person".





Could you come up with some examples of this useage ?

I think there is a definate diffrence between "elete" which is a compliment and "elitist" which is not complementary at all.

I would like to be elete , if I coule avoid being therby an eletist.

Might be taken to mean , I would like to be strong , capable , well educated , well paid and or very powerfull , if it didn't make me a snob.


I really think you have missed a cruchial point , someone who accuses someone elese of being an elitist, never, is being complementary.

Michael Tee

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2008, 05:07:08 PM »
<<So being rich is one of your requirement for being an elitist? Barry is rich you know.>>

There is such a thing as an economic elite and IMHO it does not include people in Obama's financial bracket, although it would include John Kerry and John McCain (through marriage,) and the Bush and Kennedy families.  Being super-rich IS a requirement for the economic elite, but the Obamas don't make the cut.

There's an intellectual elite, which would definitely include Obama but not McCain or Palin.

Elitism in general is not relevant to the issues generally, but it IS relevant to the issue of whether a candidate is in touch or not. 

A member of an economic elite like Bush or McCain is clearly out of touch with the bread and butter issues of the average American.  A community organizer not only is immune to the isolating effects of great wealth, but by the very nature of his work has to become deeply immersed in those same bread and butter issues.

A member of an intellectual elite is usually accused of cultural incompatibility with the mainstream.  This would account for some painful and embarrassing catch-up moments of the Hillary campaign, where she spoke of her "love' for duck hunting, her attempts to simulate blue-collar drinking habits in a neighbourhood tavern and the rural, fake-Southern accent she often affected.  Obama's intellectual elitism caused him some regrets in the wake of the "bittergate" gaffe.

sirs

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2008, 05:14:55 PM »
Kinda like what I thought, when a Democrat uses the term referencing a Democrat, that's a good thing.  When a Democrat uses the term referencing a Republican, then it's a bad thing

In other words, it again depends on what the definition of is, is
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2008, 05:21:53 PM »
<<Kinda like what I thought, when a Democrat uses the term referencing a Democrat, that's a good thing.  When a Democrat uses the term referencing a Republican, then it's a bad thing>>

Excellent.  Now you're only one step away from the real underlying truth, which is that since Republicans are bad, any reference to them will be bad, and since Democrats are on the whole good, almost any reference to them (except from a Republican) will have to be good.

sirs

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Re: Elitism
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2008, 05:44:57 PM »
<<Kinda like what I thought, when a Democrat uses the term referencing a Democrat, that's a good thing.  When a Democrat uses the term referencing a Republican, then it's a bad thing>>

Excellent.  Now you're only one step away from the real underlying truth, which is that since Republicans are bad, any reference to them will be bad, and since Democrats are on the whole good, almost any reference to them (except from a Republican) will have to be good.

LOL.......priceless
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle