Author Topic: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .  (Read 25642 times)

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MissusDe

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The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« on: October 17, 2008, 04:31:50 PM »
The latest Protect Marriage Yes on 8 television ad in California shows an incredibly cute 8 year old Hispanic girl bringing the book King and King home to her mother saying "Guess what I learned in school today. . . I can marry a princess!"
 
The anti-Prop 8, pro gay marriage crowd is running ads charging this whole idea that public schools will teach gay marriage is just a "lie."
 
The latest press release from the Protect Marriage Yes on 8 campaign in California rather cleverly points out the same groups now charging its a lie public schools will teach about gay marriage whether parents like it or not ? were just in court in Massachussetts filing amicus briefs arguing parents don't have any right to opt their children out of the pro-gay marriage curriculum.

From the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Amicus Curiae Brief:

?In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, where the right of same-sex couples to marry is protected under the state constitution, it is particularly important to teach children about families with gay parents.? [p 5]

From the Human Rights Campaign Amicus Curiae Brief:

?There is no constitutional principle grounded in either the First Amendment?s free exercise clause or the right to direct the upbringing of one?s children, which requires defendants to either remove the books now in issue ? or to treat them as suspect by imposing an opt-out system.? [pp1-2]

From the ACLU Amicus Curiae Brief:

?Specifically, the parents in this case do not have a constitutional right to override the professional pedagogical judgment of the school with respect to the inclusion within the curriculum of the age-appropriate children?s book?King and King.? [p 9]

Which side is really telling the truth here about its aims?

http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?action=post;board=1.0

Plane

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2008, 04:44:33 PM »
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-samesex-teachable-oct11,0,4278379.story

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77734

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/11/MNFG13F1VG.DTL

But there was a question of justifying the field trip academically. Jaroflow decided she could.

Quote
"It really is what we call a teachable moment," Jaroflow said, noting the historic significance of same-sex marriage and related civil rights issues. "I think I'm well within the parameters."




Yes, a line has been crossed , and that commercial with the little girl seems realistic in the lee of this incident.

In the first line of some of these ,the teacher is absolved of blame by the statement that she was surprised by the presence of her class. Then she picks the blame back up by speaking of it as a teachable moment.

On the bright side , this does bring voters to the polls who might not have been excited by lesser issues.

_JS

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2008, 04:52:35 PM »
Out of curiosity, why would it hurt children to teach them that some children (very few) have gay parents?

It is a fact. What is the harm in teaching them this? I have two children and I'm a Christian, so I'd like to know.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
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Plane

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 04:55:37 PM »
Out of curiosity, why would it hurt children to teach them that some children (very few) have gay parents?

It is a fact. What is the harm in teaching them this? I have two children and I'm a Christian, so I'd like to know.


I don't know what would be the equivelent for you , what a teacher could tell your child that would fill you with horror .

Should one of your chillds teachers tell your child that there is no point in study of scripture?


_JS

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 04:58:53 PM »
Out of curiosity, why would it hurt children to teach them that some children (very few) have gay parents?

It is a fact. What is the harm in teaching them this? I have two children and I'm a Christian, so I'd like to know.


I don't know what would be the equivelent for you , what a teacher could tell your child that would fill you with horror .

Should one of your chillds teachers tell your child that there is no point in study of scripture?

That is an opinion. I expect my children to know the difference between an opinion and a fact.

It is a fact that some children have homosexual parents. One may form an opinion about that, but it does not change the underlying fact.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 05:07:44 PM »
Out of curiosity, why would it hurt children to teach them that some children (very few) have gay parents?

It is a fact. What is the harm in teaching them this? I have two children and I'm a Christian, so I'd like to know.


I don't know what would be the equivelent for you , what a teacher could tell your child that would fill you with horror .

Should one of your chillds teachers tell your child that there is no point in study of scripture?

That is an opinion. I expect my children to know the difference between an opinion and a fact.

It is a fact that some children have homosexual parents. One may form an opinion about that, but it does not change the underlying fact.


It is a fact that every sort of person has become a parent at one time or another , this absolves every sort of problem ?


I have no idea what you feel you have a right to object to.

Imagine...
Speaker one..
"I am a bank robbing , drug smuggleing , evoloutiong teaching, slave owning ,Satan worshiping , gay , tax avoiding, draft dodgeing , Communist , Klansman , running for congress."

JS_ " I would take issue with you on one or two of those....."

Speaker one...
" And I am a parent."

JS_ " Oh well then , Ok."

Michael Tee

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2008, 05:15:47 PM »
A few days ago I linked to a site that listed acts of violence against gay people.  They have been tortured, mutilated and murdered.  While Christian preachers whip up hatred against them, the schools are their last line of defence - - SOMEBODY has to be teaching the kids that it's OK to be gay, that gays don't deserve to be beaten to death in the name of Jesus.  We have to change a mindset that teaches all kids through comments from parents, churches and ignoramuses in general that gays are unnatural and "outsiders" - - i.e., fair game.

Shame on anyone who opposes teaching tolerance of alternative lifestyles and sexual diversity.

richpo64

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2008, 05:16:37 PM »
We're told to be tolerant of others. It's clear liberals are not tolerant of views they disagree with. They use the courts to force them on others. One more reason to vote McCain.

Plane

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 05:17:08 PM »
A few days ago I linked to a site that listed acts of violence against gay people.  They have been tortured, mutilated and murdered.  While Christian preachers whip up hatred against them, the schools are their last line of defence - - SOMEBODY has to be teaching the kids that it's OK to be gay, that gays don't deserve to be beaten to death in the name of Jesus.  We have to change a mindset that teaches all kids through comments from parents, churches and ignoramuses in general that gays are unnatural and "outsiders" - - i.e., fair game.

Shame on anyone who opposes teaching tolerance of alternative lifestyles and sexual diversity.

They are teaching Natzism next, why not?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 05:21:52 PM »
We're told to be tolerant of others. It's clear liberals are not tolerant of views they disagree with. They use the courts to force them on others. One more reason to vote McCain.

You are told to be tolerant. But you like being intolerant of people who deny you your right to be intolerant. So you should vote for someone who believes that intolerance is a God-given right.

McCain has to go alone with intolerant people,because without them he's toast.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

richpo64

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 05:27:08 PM »
The intolerant side is heard from. Didn't make much sense, but we heard him.

It is of course true that the only way the left can push it's perverted view of the world on to others in through the courts. Spread the wealth, spread the perversion, spread the disease, spread the misery, it's the only way they get anywhere.

Plane

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 08:15:38 PM »
We're told to be tolerant of others. It's clear liberals are not tolerant of views they disagree with. They use the courts to force them on others. One more reason to vote McCain.

You are told to be tolerant. But you like being intolerant of people who deny you your right to be intolerant. So you should vote for someone who believes that intolerance is a God-given right.

McCain has to go alone with intolerant people,because without them he's toast.

You really need to look up the meaning of the word tolerance.

It does not mean putting up with what you like , it means allowing what you do not like.

In proper terms are you actually tolerant?

Michael Tee

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 08:32:56 PM »
<<They are teaching Natzism next, why not?>>

What makes you equate Naziism with homosexuality?  Do you really believe them to be equally evil?

Michael Tee

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 09:01:37 PM »
I think it's clear from some of the comments in this thread that we are past the point of reasoning with these people.  We know their thoughts on GLBT people, and we know what they think of teaching tolerance in the schools.  We just can't afford to debate with them endlessly about this, to deal over and over again with their hatred, with their irrationality, with their extremism.

We have to go to the school boards and let them know in no uncertain terms the results of this wave of deliberately provoked hatred of GLBTs, crime by crime, murder by murder, torture by torture.  These are Americans and Canadians, with families and friends, and we have finally got to stick up for them and do what is in our power to do, and that is RE-EDUCATE from the bottom up, starting in the school system.

Whether the haters and the fanatics like it or not is irrelevant.  Yes, Benni Has Two Mothers is going to be in the public schools,all the public schools, and the kids are going to learn to love, to respect, to honour and dignify GLBT people just as they would any other person; they will defend them from attacks and bigotry.  The debate is gonna be closed.  Public schools have an obligation to teach civic virtue.  Tolerance is a civic virtue, hatred, bigotry and intolerance are not.  End of story.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 09:18:17 PM »
I'm not voting for any law taking away rights from any citizens, not now or ever.

I do not care if Adam marries Steve, or Jane marries Eve.

It's up to them.

I do not see any problem with children knowing that gay people exist.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."