Looking forward and looking back

[Xavier_Onassis]

Failing to resist the expansion of Communism?

Oh yes ,that was worthwile and important.

Imagine the world in which Communism was not resisted in Berlin,Korea , Vietnam , Cambodia(... well it wasn't resisted much in Cambodia , but that makes my point) or Afghanistan.

Perhaps the Soviet Union would not have become exhausted and collapsed without the fighting and every country that resisted on its own would have had no more success than Hungary  in the Prague spring.

We could be speaking Russian now , except we would have no internet , or right to speak.

==============================================
All that happened in Vietnam was that a lot of Americans got killed and the country was plunged into debt.

The USSR collapsed due to its own internal contradictions: they could not modernize without computers, they could not maintain control over the population if they gave them computers.  Ronald Reagan was a bit player in this.

And no, we would not be speaking Russian. That is totally absurd. It is damn near impossible to get American students to write coherent English.
 

[Plane]

Failing to resist the expansion of Communism?

Oh yes ,that was worthwile and important.

Imagine the world in which Communism was not resisted in Berlin,Korea , Vietnam , Cambodia(... well it wasn't resisted much in Cambodia , but that makes my point) or Afghanistan.

Perhaps the Soviet Union would not have become exhausted and collapsed without the fighting and every country that resisted on its own would have had no more success than Hungary  in the Prague spring.

We could be speaking Russian now , except we would have no internet , or right to speak.

==============================================
All that happened in Vietnam was that a lot of Americans got killed and the country was plunged into debt.

The USSR collapsed due to its own internal contradictions: they could not modernize without computers, they could not maintain control over the population if they gave them computers.  Ronald Reagan was a bit player in this.

And no, we would not be speaking Russian. That is totally absurd. It is damn near impossible to get American students to write coherent English.
 

I think it was the threat of haveing to learn German , Italian or Japaneese that made Americans fight so hard in WWII.

If the USA had not modernised with computers the USSR would never have known the lack , Steve Jobs was more than a bit player in that.

[Plane]

It's their country, too.  If they vote, they have a right to complain and redress.  We can talk about everything that happens and mix it up, of course, but as the supporters of the Obama administration, we should take it upon ourselves to at least TRY to understand, defend if we must but not constantly hammer on each other without mercy.  Let's not blow our opportunity to be magnanimous in triumph.

I'm just sayin'.

Brass.

Wow , that is nearly beautifull, I will remember your expression of magnanimous virtue when McCain wins and our citys erupt in riot.

[Michael Tee]

<<I think it was the threat of haveing to learn German , Italian or Japaneese that made Americans fight so hard in WWII.>>

Actually it was the insult and the injury of the attack on Pearl Harbor, plus good old-fashioned American racism that made Americans fight so hard against the Japanese.  As for Germany and Italy, Roosevelt still did not dare to declare war upon them because most Americans didn't give a shit and he had promised the country not to get dragged into a "European" war.  A lot of Americans could already speak German or Italian and the prospect of learning a new language was not any kind of motivation for those who couldn't.

If Hitler had not felt compelled to declare war upon the U.S.A. pursuant to treaty obligations, the U.S. would never have entered the European war.

You are trying, once again, to falsely portray America as more democratic, courageous and anti-fascist than reality indicates.

<<If the USA had not modernised with computers the USSR would never have known the lack , Steve Jobs was more than a bit player in that.>>

One day when I have more time I am going to read up on the real story of how communist rule ended in Russia and Eastern Europe.  As far as I'm concerned, none of the explanations offered in this forum, mainly I think by plane, seem credible, although I'm sure computers and defence spending had some role to play.    This whole thing really is one huge mystery to me.

[richpo64]

>>I expect that Richpo will continue to regurgitate every morsel of bile that Rush and others spew. The best response is just to let him run his mouth. Nothing he says has any actual relationship with the truth.<<

It's true, and not just in this one instance, that Brass has from time to time said things that make help me to see him as a decent human being no matter how wrong I consider his views to be.

XO on the other hand is just a total fucking asshole.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I think it was the threat of haveing to learn German , Italian or Japaneese that made Americans fight so hard in WWII.

If the USA had not modernized with computers the USSR would never have known the lack , Steve Jobs was more than a bit player in that.

======================================
But see, that is the point. The US modernized, not to defeat the Russians, but to make industry more efficient. The Russian bureaucracy knew nothing about computers, except that they would make samhazdats and other communications between Soviet peoples even more possible. Gorbachov decided to modernize and to become more open at the same time. About the same time, the WWII generation of the bureaucracy became too feeble to resist. The entire system was full of gaps and patches and it simply collapsed.

Jobs made personal computers affordable, as did Sinclair, Commodore, Radio Shack and Texas Instruments. The industrial use of computers came several years before that. My father was Recorder of deeds in Missouri and he was the first to get all the land records of the county from the 1820's to the present on computer tapes. This was around 1978-1979. I got my first TI 99-4a in 1983, I think.
.

[Brassmask]

Wow , that is nearly beautifull, I will remember your expression of magnanimous virtue when McCain wins and our citys erupt in riot.

Regarding "riots"...

If we go into the election day and polls are showing Obama with as commanding a lead as he is showing now and he loses, I would expect riots and I would think that riots are in order.  I might be too scared to actually participate in riots.  I'd hate to get killed or incapacitated and leave my wife in a lurch.

If Obama loses with a commanding lead in the polls and the exit polls (which the right has effectively worked to cast doubt on since 2000), this nation will be in dire need of some Revolution.  It is not my intention to sound radical but resolved.  It would be my hope that if all indicators show that Obama should have won and there is widespread reports of machines switching votes that those of you on the right to stand up and demand a thorough accounting of the election.

The secret ballot part of our elections can be a tricky thing at times.  The is a great demand for trust in those charged with handling and counting of the votes from those of us in the electorate.  RFK, Jr was on one of the morning shows today stating that the election is stolen already.  I hope the polls indicate a great lead from any and all angles of polling so that it will be "un-stealable". 

Obviously, there is nothing to be done regarding the electronic voting machines in this cycle.  I will be contacting all my representatives, local and federal in coming days to press them to rid our nation of any and all electronic voting machines.  No voting system, especially a necessarily secretive system like ours, is perfect, but knowing how easy it is to make software do what you want (when you have that knowledge), electronic voting machines can never raise to level of trust that I have for a simple paper ballot.

There has been much talk in the last few days of the race "tightening".  I look at that with a jaundiced eye.  If a majority of the polls show that happening then I will find that believable.  If Rasmussen and Zogby are saying that only, then "tightening" talk, for me, is interpreted at "stealing" talk.

Plane, wouldn't you agree that if the majority of polls (prior and exit) show Obama overwhelmingly ahead and then he loses that would appear to be a miscarriage of justice and perhaps a riot might be in order?

And, if you feel it would not warrant a riot, then what situation would you ever feel might warrant one?

Brassmask

PS.  If they were sincere, thanks for the kudos re: "almost beautiful" comment.

[sirs]

There has been much talk in the last few days of the race "tightening".  I look at that with a jaundiced eye.  If a majority of the polls show that happening then I will find that believable.  If Rasmussen and Zogby are saying that only, then "tightening" talk, for me, is interpreted at "stealing" talk.

I see...the 2 most notable and objective polls are to be discounted, unless far more democrat leaning polls concur.  Gotcha     

[richpo64]

>>If we go into the election day and polls are showing Obama with as commanding a lead as he is showing now and he loses, I would expect riots and I would think that riots are in order.<<

Interesting.

You should consider the Bradley Effect before you put your stamp of approval on rioting.

I'm guessing you're talking about Black people since you yourself are too much of a coward to do what you feel should be done. Along those lines you should consider that the destruction will occur in Black neighborhoods. It's those who can least afford it that suffer most in these things.

Also, but it won't happen, if rioters showed up in my neighborhood, they wouldn't leave the cul-de-sac alive.

[Brassmask]

I see...the 2 most notable and objective polls are to be discounted, unless far more democrat leaning polls concur.  Gotcha     

*sigh*

Let's talk about it.

Zogby and Rasmussen are constantly cited on FOX and by the McCain campaigns as showing that the race is tightening or shows McCain ahead.

Maybe I'm just as guilty of bias against them as you are in favor of them, but as far as I can tell, they are most often at odds with most other polls.

Of course, it could be that they are the most reliable and trustworthy but that would then mean that every other polling operation is "in the tank" for Obama.  Now, is that what you are trying to imply?

The polls are never all going to be getting the exact same results but they should be in the same area within a few points.  Right?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Also, but it won't happen, if rioters showed up in my neighborhood, they wouldn't leave the cul-de-sac alive.

Because you would personally kill them?  With a gun? With a rifle? With a broadaxe or a scimitar?

[Plane]

Also, but it won't happen, if rioters showed up in my neighborhood, they wouldn't leave the cul-de-sac alive.

Because you would personally kill them?  With a gun? With a rifle? With a broadaxe or a scimitar?

Requires prior planing to be effective.


I reccomend a barricade across the culdesac entrance and hidden rifle positions.

Not likely to work unless the neighbors are agreeable.

[Plane]

Wow , that is nearly beautifull, I will remember your expression of magnanimous virtue when McCain wins and our citys erupt in riot.

Regarding "riots"...

If we go into the election day and polls are showing Obama with as commanding a lead as he is showing now and he loses, I would expect riots and I would think that riots are in order.  I might be too scared to actually participate in riots.  I'd hate to get killed or incapacitated and leave my wife in a lurch.

If Obama loses with a commanding lead in the polls and the exit polls (which the right has effectively worked to cast doubt on since 2000), this nation will be in dire need of some Revolution.  It is not my intention to sound radical but resolved.  It would be my hope that if all indicators show that Obama should have won and there is widespread reports of machines switching votes that those of you on the right to stand up and demand a thorough accounting of the election.

The secret ballot part of our elections can be a tricky thing at times.  The is a great demand for trust in those charged with handling and counting of the votes from those of us in the electorate.  RFK, Jr was on one of the morning shows today stating that the election is stolen already.  I hope the polls indicate a great lead from any and all angles of polling so that it will be "un-stealable". 

Obviously, there is nothing to be done regarding the electronic voting machines in this cycle.  I will be contacting all my representatives, local and federal in coming days to press them to rid our nation of any and all electronic voting machines.  No voting system, especially a necessarily secretive system like ours, is perfect, but knowing how easy it is to make software do what you want (when you have that knowledge), electronic voting machines can never raise to level of trust that I have for a simple paper ballot.

There has been much talk in the last few days of the race "tightening".  I look at that with a jaundiced eye.  If a majority of the polls show that happening then I will find that believable.  If Rasmussen and Zogby are saying that only, then "tightening" talk, for me, is interpreted at "stealing" talk.

Plane, wouldn't you agree that if the majority of polls (prior and exit) show Obama overwhelmingly ahead and then he loses that would appear to be a miscarriage of justice and perhaps a riot might be in order?

And, if you feel it would not warrant a riot, then what situation would you ever feel might warrant one?

Brassmask

PS.  If they were sincere, thanks for the kudos re: "almost beautiful" comment.

You deserve a better compliment than I gave , you are being thoughtfull and generous.

But ...

Obama wins and no riot is expected , even though fraud is already being found and proven , if this fraud turns out to be the tip of the iceberg and there is indeed very much fraud helping Obama , there will be no riot?

Of course not , there is not one standard of maturaty riots are expected if Dems feel cheated , Republicans that feel cheated can suck it up.

Really when you hear rumor of your own side cheating , do you take it with the same size grain of salt as you do any other?

[richpo64]

>>Because you would personally kill them? ... <<

Yup.

[Plane]

>>Because you would personally kill them? ... <<

Yup.

It is quite likely that the riots will occur near the homes of the rioters.