Author Topic: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's  (Read 5208 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2008, 10:49:28 PM »
<<Biden just lowered it to $150K , they are bidding down their promises before the election  , what will their promise be worth later?>>

That's not true.  Biden did no such thing.

Plane

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2008, 12:27:16 AM »
<<You make it sound as if no plumber could found a plumbing business.>>

That's not true at all.  Joe's not talking about founding a small plumbing business.  Obama told him that 95% of small businesses make LESS than $250K per year, in which case Joe would not be affected at all by Obama's tax hike.

I have no problem with Joe eventually founding a small plumbing business.  I have a big problem with him being anywhere near BUYING OUT his boss's business, which he claimed made $270 - $280K per year.  IMHO, that would take an investment of over $750K and possibly close to a million dollars.  In the circumstances the odds of Joe raising that kind of money in the immediate future are like the odds of him winning the lottery.  There is no realistic way that he can be, as he claimed, "planning" to buy out the boss.  Dreaming, maybe.  Wishing, sure.  But planning?  There is no realistic plan that he could formulate for getting that money together in the foreseeable future that would not include the word "lottery" or "genie" in it somewhere.

I do not get you , that sort of business deal is quite ordinary in every city in this nation.

If a Plumbing business has five trucks and eight employees is that too big for you to imagine Joe ever being in charge of it?He will have a loan to pay off , but that is pretty ordinary too.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2008, 12:32:12 AM »

If a Plumbing business has five trucks and eight employees is that too big for you to imagine Joe ever being in charge of it?He will have a loan to pay off , but that is pretty ordinary too.


Would you loan a million dollars to a guy without a plumber's license who could not even pay a $1600 tax bill?

I don't think most banks would. I'd think he'd have to be investing at least $100,000 to $200,00 of his own money before a bank would loan him the rest.  Five vans and a bunch of tools cannot be resold for anywhere near even $800K should Joe lose his customer base.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2008, 12:38:29 AM »

If a Plumbing business has five trucks and eight employees is that too big for you to imagine Joe ever being in charge of it?He will have a loan to pay off , but that is pretty ordinary too.


Would you loan a million dollars to a guy without a plumber's license who could not even pay a $1600 tax bill?

I don't think most banks would. I'd think he'd have to be investing at least $100,000 to $200,00 of his own money before a bank would loan him the rest.  Five vans and a bunch of tools cannot be resold for anywhere near even $800K should Joe lose his customer base.

The customer base is an important part of a business , so is the name , so is the experience level of its employees.

Joe is attending classes and is scheduled to take the exam that will result in his being licensed , he is getting practical experience .

Yes, I might loan him that much if the business he was buying had a history of making the money it took to pay off the loan, and Joe seemed capable .

By the way , service trucks come in a wide range of prices , so plain pickups might be pretty cheap , trucks with tanks and pumps might be more than $100,000 each. 

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2008, 02:07:42 AM »
Time will tell what Joe does, but I am guessing that paying taxes in a higher bracket will be the very least of his obstacles.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2008, 02:36:53 AM »
Time will tell what Joe does, but I am guessing that paying taxes in a higher bracket will be the very least of his obstacles.

If he parlays his 15 minutes into a talk show he could easily pull in 250 large.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2008, 02:49:26 AM »
If he parlays his 15 minutes into a talk show he could easily pull in 250 large.

He does not appear to have all that much to say. So far, he's just Joey One-Note.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2008, 09:03:54 AM »
AT this point, the dynamics of the campaign have turned Joe the Plumber into Joe the Celebrity.  The opportunities that Joe the Celebrity has of buying out his boss are a lot more realistic than the opportunities of Joe the Plumber.  I think it's important to keep the debate focused on what Joe the Plumber could or could not realistically have been expected to achieve in the way of buying out the boss.

Anyone who understands business knows that people can turn things around, improve themselves, etc.  They also know that loans are made on track records, not on gut instinct.   They also know that rules are made to be broken, that is to say that while there is probably no bank at present which would loan Joe the funds to buy out the boss, there is no way of saying definitely that there is no little old lady plumbing customer or crazy relative or naive recent heir who couldn't be bamboozled or sweet-talked into backing Joe the Plumber as he presently is, i.e., no licence, no money, tax lien and all.  IMHO, it's a very, very long shot, but not impossible.

But McCain wasn't using Joe to prove that Obama's unfair to lottery winners or to the one guy in a million who can pull off a miracle of business financing by finding a little old lady angel - - he presented Joe as a typical American working man with a dream who was about to get fucked in the ass by Obama and his tax plan.  As a typical working class guy in the plumbing business with no money, no licence and liens on his property, Joe doesn't have a hope in hell of buying out the boss.  Plain and simple.  Any claim that he has any hope in the immediate future beyond a miracle is a lie.

BT

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2008, 10:46:09 AM »
Quote
As a typical working class guy in the plumbing business with no money, no licence and liens on his property, Joe doesn't have a hope in hell of buying out the boss.  Plain and simple.  Any claim that he has any hope in the immediate future beyond a miracle is a lie.

So what you are really saying is the candidate of hope's tax plan, crushes hope, just too many obstacles to overcome for poor Joe.

 

richpo64

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2008, 12:36:50 PM »
>>ROTFLMFAO.  You're not keeping up with the Republican Lie Machine.  Ambinder's blog lowered the cut-off further to $150K.<<

It's already been said Biden lowered it to $150K. So Brass, it looks like they have you on the gullable machine.

Getting dizzy?

Plane

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2008, 04:29:00 PM »
  Any claim that he has any hope in the immediate future beyond a miracle is a lie.


Immediate?

The guy is attending school in order to earn his license , the same way the richest Plumber in the world did years ago.

When did he say that he planned to buy a business tomorrow?

richpo64

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2008, 04:41:27 PM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8sWT_SSQwE[/youtube]

There you go you simpletons. You should at LEAST pay attention to what your leaders are saying.

sirs

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2008, 04:48:04 PM »
What they (the Dems) need to do is to go into a prevent defense.  Isolate Biden, and keep him away from any microphones or cameras, and don't allow Obama to answer anyone's unscripted question, anywhere, at anytime.  And maybe they can still win this
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2008, 04:52:20 PM »
What they (the Dems) need to do is to go into a prevent defense.  Isolate Biden, and keep him away from any microphones or cameras, and don't allow Obama to answer anyone's unscripted question, anywhere, at anytime.  And maybe they can still win this

Like they've been doing with Palin?

sirs

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Re: More Inspiraton From Obama, More Disappointment From McCain's
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2008, 04:58:19 PM »
Last I checked, the main criticism was in trying to keep Palin in some form of protective bubble.  I'm of the group that supports letting Palin be Palin, and not so handled by McCain folks

The criticism of Biden is pretty much the opposite.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle