Author Topic: Becoming a Nation of Thieves  (Read 1802 times)

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sirs

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Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« on: November 23, 2008, 05:26:40 PM »
Evil Concealed by Money

BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2008, AND THEREAFTER


Evil acts can be given an aura of moral legitimacy by noble-sounding socialistic expressions such as spreading the wealth, income redistribution or caring for the less fortunate.  Let's think about socialism.

Imagine there's an elderly widow down the street from you. She has neither the strength to mow her lawn nor enough money to hire someone to do it. Here's my question to you that I'm almost afraid for the answer: Would you support a government mandate that forces one of your neighbors to mow the lady's lawn each week?  If he failed to follow the government orders, would you approve of some kind of punishment ranging from house arrest and fines to imprisonment? I'm hoping that the average American would condemn such a government mandate because it would be a form of slavery, the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another.

Would there be the same condemnation if instead of the government forcing your neighbor to physically mow the widow's lawn, the government forced him to give the lady $40 of his weekly earnings?  That way the widow could hire someone to mow her lawn.  I'd say that there is little difference between the mandates.  While the mandate's mechanism differs, it is nonetheless the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another.

Probably most Americans would have a clearer conscience if all the neighbors were forced to put money in a government pot and a government agency would send the widow a weekly sum of $40 to hire someone to mow her lawn.  This mechanism makes the particular victim invisible but it still boils down to one person being forcibly used to serve the purposes of another.  Putting the money into a government pot makes palatable acts that would otherwise be deemed morally offensive.

This is why socialism is evil. It employs evil means, coercion or taking the property of one person, to accomplish good ends, helping one's fellow man.  Helping one's fellow man in need, by reaching into one's own pockets, is a laudable and praiseworthy goal. Doing the same through coercion and reaching into another's pockets has no redeeming features and is worthy of condemnation.

Some people might contend that we are a democracy where the majority agrees to the forcible use of one person for the good of another. But does a majority consensus confer morality to an act that would otherwise be deemed as immoral?  In other words, if a majority of the widow's neighbors voted to force one neighbor to mow her law, would that make it moral?

I don't believe any moral case can be made for the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another.  But that conclusion is not nearly as important as the fact that so many of my fellow Americans give wide support to using people.  I would like to think it is because they haven't considered that more than $2 trillion of the over $3 trillion federal budget represents Americans using one another. Of course, they might consider it compensatory justice.  For example, one American might think, "Farmers get Congress to use me to serve the needs of some farmers.  I'm going to get Congress to use someone else to serve my needs by subsidizing my child's college education."

The bottom line is that we've become a nation of thieves, a value rejected by our founders. James Madison, the father of our Constitution, was horrified when Congress appropriated $15,000 to help French refugees. He said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

Tragically, today's Americans would run Madison out of town on a rail.


Our founders would be rolling in their graves

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2008, 07:32:13 PM »
What actually happens in most places with zoning laws if the widow does not mow her grass is that the municipality will eventually send someone to mow it and will bill the widow for it. If she does not pay, a lien will be placed on her property and she will either pay the lien or eventually her property will be auctioned for failure to pay. The people who mow her lawn will be paid out of the municipality budget, which will be repaid when she pays the lien or the property is sold.

If the widow is a renter, then the property owner will be billed after the municipality sends someone.

Also likely, especially in smaller towns, is that someone will simply mow it for her out of friendship. Numerous organizations--the Boy Scouts, Acorn, Lions and Kiwanis often have projects of this sort.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2008, 07:51:06 PM »
Not just socialism, but ALL government involves taking money from some and spending it on others. People in Elko, Nevada are taxed so FEMA can assist flood, hurricane and perhaps volcano and earthquake victims in other parts of the nation from disasters that will never happen in Elko.

Human society cannot progress without government. Government cannot exist without taxes, and there will always be people who do not wish to pay taxes. You are trying to make this sound like only SOME items are valid for the government to spend money on, which I suppose would be the military and the cops and I am not sure you are in favor of roads and schools and other frills.

I think that you would be happiest in a cabin somewhere out on Fortymile Creek in Alaska, living off your skills at trapping beavers and panning for gold, and maybe your check from the State government every year. You could barter your pelts and golddust for food and probably avoid taxes altogether. I am sure I would not mind, and I doubt that your taxes would be missed much.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2008, 08:02:28 PM »
A) NO ONE is advocating life without Government

B) NO ONE is advocating life with no taxes
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2008, 09:12:58 PM »
Then, see, if government is a given and so are taxes, then we are not discussing the morality of the government taxing citizens for their own benefit, but how much they can tax and what they can spend it on.

You are not making a major moral stand as you think you are, but just quibbling over details.

Apparently taxing the citizens to cut the penniless widow's lawn would be immoral to you.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2008, 09:53:35 PM »
Then, see, if government is a given and so are taxes, then we are not discussing the morality of the government taxing citizens for their own benefit, but how much they can tax and what they can spend it on.

You are not making a major moral stand as you think you are, but just quibbling over details.

Apparently taxing the citizens to cut the penniless widow's lawn would be immoral to you.

Or at waht level taxes are reasonable , and whether the taxes ought to be set at minimised levels as a necessacery evil , or kept at the maximum bearable level as a usefull tool of social reshapeing.

sirs

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2008, 10:47:26 PM »
Then, see, if government is a given and so are taxes, then we are not discussing the morality of the government taxing citizens for their own benefit, but how much they can tax and what they can spend it on.  You are not making a major moral stand as you think you are, but just quibbling over details.

Or at waht level taxes are reasonable , and whether the taxes ought to be set at minimised levels as a necessacery evil , or kept at the maximum bearable level as a usefull tool of social reshapeing.

BINGO!!...someone that actually gets it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 12:48:20 AM »
To become a better country takes money. I hardly think taxes have ever been at any "maximum bearable level". Pissing bazillions away in Iraq is a far more irresponsible act than renewing highways and bridges and educating our young people or preventing the premature death of our citizens.

Yet when war was proposed in Iraq, there were few who pointed out how much it would cost. When educating people and keeping them healthy is proposed, all we ever hear is how we can't afford it.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 01:01:12 AM »
It is amazing how often we conflate actions at the federal level with actions taken at a local level.

Miami did not invade Iraq. Miami did not invest billions of dollars in an effort to stabalize that country after Saddam was deposed.

Miami very well have a high grass ordinance on the books where properties must be kept up to local standards. And the people in violation of said ordinances most often are given warnings and time to get back into compliance. And if they don't there is usually a ticket issued where the violator can plead whatever extenuating circumstances are involved that led to non compliance.

Municipal action is usually the last resort in cases like this. Before it gets to that stage the widow usually has a volunteer group come by to help out, often tipped off by the same court personnel who heard her case.

The usual profile in cases like this are absentee landlords, who have no idea their property is in violation.




Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 09:53:45 PM »
Miami very well have a high grass ordinance on the books where properties must be kept up to local standards. And the people in violation of said ordinances most often are given warnings and time to get back into compliance. And if they don't there is usually a ticket issued where the violator can plead whatever extenuating circumstances are involved that led to non compliance.

In Miami, they don't give warning tickets, and although you can have a hearing, the people who hear you can't change anything.

Taxes are taxes. Government actions are government actions. If it is immoral for the government to cut the widow's lawn and tax people to do so, it is also immoral to tax people to invade Iraq when Iraq posed no threat to the security of any American.

I do not see this as immoral in either case. Perhaps wise or unwise, but not moral or immoral. Government is an agent of the people in a democracy, and if the majority requests the government cut icky lawns, then they can do so and no sin has been committed.

You will never have 100% of the people voting in favor of anything, unless sirs and people like him all move to live isolated self-sufficient lives in places like Fortymile Creek, or perhaps a nice cabin along the Rat River in Canada.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 10:49:18 PM »

A) NO ONE is advocating life without Government

B) NO ONE is advocating life with no taxes


Just for the heck of it:
Why?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 10:53:24 PM »

A) NO ONE is advocating life without Government

B) NO ONE is advocating life with no taxes


Just for the heck of it:
Why?



Governmenthas been a feature of Human life so long , we may not remember how to behave without it .

Do we have a potential for a return to the human condition of prehistory ?

We are so many now that co-operation is a requirement of life for the human race , can this happen without government?

sirs

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 11:36:10 PM »
A) NO ONE is advocating life without Government
B) NO ONE is advocating life with no taxes

Just for the heck of it:
Why?


Because, as the founders understood, a level of protection was necessary for a country, vs alot of little armies, that never really had any coordinating benefit.  And in some way, such a level of protection needs to be payed for.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 11:44:20 PM »
A) NO ONE is advocating life without Government
B) NO ONE is advocating life with no taxes

Just for the heck of it:
Why?


Because, as the founders understood, a level of protection was necessary for a country, vs alot of little armies, that never really had any coordinating benefit.  And in some way, such a level of protection needs to be payed for.

You mean,to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity?

 http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Becoming a Nation of Thieves
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2008, 12:35:07 AM »
Governmenthas been a feature of Human life so long , we may not remember how to behave without it .

Do we have a potential for a return to the human condition of prehistory ?

We are so many now that co-operation is a requirement of life for the human race , can this happen without government?

==================================================
We cannot remember anything we have not experienced. I cannot remember a chariot ride. I can speculate on what I saw in the film Ben Hur, but that is meaningless.

If all gvernment was destroyed, some would survive, as occurred in many places following WWII.

People can cooperate in may ways other than government, and do it all the time.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."