Author Topic: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism  (Read 92487 times)

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BSB

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #90 on: January 02, 2010, 07:48:29 PM »
Exactly right, her own son was over there. Just another reason she should have been paying better attention.

BT

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #91 on: January 02, 2010, 07:53:47 PM »
The Bush Doctrine is not why her son is there.

He is there because of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.


BSB

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #92 on: January 02, 2010, 07:55:42 PM »
Oh no, were aren't going to go through that again, are we?

BT

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #93 on: January 02, 2010, 07:59:29 PM »
That's the prevailing legal authority.

Of course for those that say the war was about oil then it seems the Carter Doctrine would prevail.

Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #94 on: January 02, 2010, 08:31:36 PM »
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Winning the nomination is a mistake if it results in losing the presidency.

Again, not if it is the will of the people. I wonder if Reagan could have been President if Goldwater had won?


How would it not be a mistake to nominate Palin if it is the will of the people?    I go from the premise that the Republican party wants to win back the White House.  If that is not a correct assessment they should let Obama run unopposed.   If it is correct, nominating Palin is, imo, a mistake.   

How does the will of the people equate to a correct decision?
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Kramer

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #95 on: January 02, 2010, 08:36:47 PM »
Exactly right, her own son was over there. Just another reason she should have been paying better attention.

yeah right every parent who's kid went to Iraq knew the Bush Doctrine. Maybe 1 out of 10,000 if your lucky. Hell you didn't know what it was till you Googled it.

And of the ones that lost life or limb I bet they wished they had studied harder on the Bush Doctrine test top prevent the event.


Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #96 on: January 02, 2010, 08:50:33 PM »




I do feel as if I am learning something, I myself had never heard this term before the interview with Palin made it popular and I didn't ever see it described so well untill just now.

I don't think I am severely isolated , but I would have been at a loss to express an opinion on the term "Bush Doctrine" yesterday.

Perhaps it was being used a lot in circles I am not privvy to , or perhaps you overestimate the spread of the term as it was at the time.

Perhaps both , but if it is Historians that produce these phrases, how is a canadate responsible to know them?

  That Palin failed to know the inside ball of Washington chatter doesn't offend me so much as attract me. There is much more to how the world works than what happens inside the city limits of Washington D.C..


Well, as to usage, I cannot explain why someone who uses this board wasn't familiar with it.  I certainly knew it.  I cringed when I heard she had flubbed it.  It had been used numerous times - was kind of a buzz word for a while in fact.   I certainly heard people on TV news shows, talk radio and the newspapers using it.  I was actually kind of proud of it, as I thought it was nice to see it given the same sort of status the Monroe Doctrine was given.  Like any buzzword, though, it wasn't coined by historians, but by pundits.  If Neil Croates is indeed the originator of the phrase, it would be a political scientist in the academic world that coined it - but he did so within three weeks of 9-11.  By the time Palin came along, it was well known.  

As to whether a governor or a candidate should know it, yeah, I think they should.  Palin was catching hell about not being up on foreign policy.  She famously claimed her state's proximity to Russia gave her foreign policy experience.  For her to be unaware of the phrase describing the major foreign policy of her parties incumbent President was a gaffe as big as a moose.  

Your darn right a candidate needs to be aware of what the current buzzwords are because the lack of such knowledge makes her look stupid - or worse - uninformed.  If Sarah Palin is nominated for President next election, I will vote for her because I want the Republican party to win.  But the Democrats will have as much success vilifying her to independents as the Republicans did with HRC.  Hillary was a lock for the nomination until the Dems figured out that she could easily lose the independent vote and  Obama was both unknown (and therefore undiscovered - except for his admirable pseudobipartisan address in 2004) and sexier than Hillary (including his minority status).  If somebody sexy comes along Sarah becomes an instant has-been.  Sarah is sexy in appearance only.  Obama looked good, politically, in his 2004 speech.  He even had me thinking, Wow, this guy could be something.  He was.  A liberal in moderate clothing.  But Sarah has baggage coming out of the box in 2012.  

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #97 on: January 02, 2010, 08:54:59 PM »
The Bush Doctrine is not why her son is there.

He is there because of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.


So the authorization to use force against a regime that had not attacked us, based on the justification that there was an imminent threat of WMDs and that the regime supported terrorism, made against the wishes of the United Nations, was NOT a product of the Doctrine that said we would unilaterally and preemptively attack regimes that supported terror or posed an imminent threat?

The apple didn't fall because of gravity, it was because Newton bumped the tree.

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

BT

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2010, 09:01:20 PM »
I fail to see how Palin winning the nomination equates to her losing the election.



BT

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #99 on: January 02, 2010, 09:07:03 PM »
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So the authorization to use force against a regime that had not attacked us, based on the justification that there was an imminent threat of WMDs and that the regime supported terrorism, made against the wishes of the United Nations, was NOT a product of the Doctrine that said we would unilaterally and preemptively attack regimes that supported terror or posed an imminent threat?

Only if you consider the Bush Doctrine to be the beginning of the conflict with Iraq.


Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2010, 09:38:20 PM »
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So the authorization to use force against a regime that had not attacked us, based on the justification that there was an imminent threat of WMDs and that the regime supported terrorism, made against the wishes of the United Nations, was NOT a product of the Doctrine that said we would unilaterally and preemptively attack regimes that supported terror or posed an imminent threat?

Only if you consider the Bush Doctrine to be the beginning of the conflict with Iraq.



I disagree.  Congress did not authorize an attack on Iraq simply because the elder Bush didn't finish the job.  They didn't authorize it because of the ignored UN resolutions concerning inspections either.   These were PART of the reasoning, but the attack on Iraq was based on: 1) the perceived presence of WMD in Iraq, and their potential use and; 2) the support of Iraq for terrorists.   Further, after trying to convince the UN (a mistake, imo) Bush decided to go in in spite of intenational opposition (kudos).  Bush attached these ideals as justification and they are exactly in line with the Bush Doctrine.   The wishy-washiness of the UN and the previous adminstration were done when Bush announced that he was changing the rules for conflict.   The invasions of both Afghanistan AND Iraq were heralded as two fronts in one war, and they were both based on the Bush Doctrine.
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Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #101 on: January 02, 2010, 09:40:37 PM »
I fail to see how Palin winning the nomination equates to her losing the election.


That's my opinion, as I think I stated, but if I didn't allow me to state it now.  To clarify, I believe that Palin cannot win a general election; therefore, I believe it would be a mistake to choose her as our candidate in the next election. 
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

BT

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2010, 09:45:43 PM »
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To clarify, I believe that Palin cannot win a general election; therefore, I believe it would be a mistake to choose her as our candidate in the next election.

I don't see why not. Her favorables are within points of Obama.

BT

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #103 on: January 02, 2010, 09:48:04 PM »
Congress urged regime change in 98, signed into law by Clinton. Perhaps the Bush Doctrine is more accurately the Clinton Doctrine.


Stray Pooch

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Re: Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism
« Reply #104 on: January 02, 2010, 09:50:47 PM »
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To clarify, I believe that Palin cannot win a general election; therefore, I believe it would be a mistake to choose her as our candidate in the next election.

I don't see why not. Her favorables are within points of Obama.


Are her favorables within points of Obamas in November 2008?
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .